6 ms·

I do find it rather worrying that people around the world seem absolutely fine with all the various initiatives introduced, all in the name of preventing terror

I do find it rather worrying that people around the world seem absolutely fine with all the various initiatives introduced, all in the name of preventing terrorism. I've had friends consider me crazy for complaining - way after the time, I hasten to add - that I'd had a small deodorant can taken off me in airport security, which I'd then had to purchase in the duty free shop. My wife's now tired of me complaining - again, after suffering through it in silent, stony-faced contemplation - that in any other context, I've just suffered sexual assault. I won't apologise for it; I find it extremely distressing to have my dick groped by a stranger. All because a machine went "beep" and one two many green bars lit up. And then you look at the London olympics; where the army will be frisking people who've dared to pay money to watch events. (NB: the army presence was guaranteed regardless of G4S's cockup). The army! And in this instance, it's not like the UK hasn't decades of experience of dealing with terrorism from the IRA. How well does all this work? Who knows, nobody's telling. I'd argue if there was anyone caught or something prevented by one of these systems, the government concerned would be singing from the rooftops. But no - it's "a deterrent." Gah.

rickmb 14y ago
If people accept it without complaining, it works exactly as intended. Let's not assume the people implementing these measures are complete morons. There's power to be gained and money to be made from a submissive, unquestioning people.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  You forgot to add, "Wake up sheeple!"
  - seabee 14y ago
    We've been yelling at the sheeple long enough to know it's ineffective. What I want to know is what would it take to wake them?
    - mcantelon 14y ago
      Suffering will eventually wake them up, but by then the opportunities to do something about it will be considerably less.
      - zecho 14y ago
        "...and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." One wonders the level of suffering people actually endure by having to purchase new deodorant at the duty free.
        mcantelon 14y ago
        I'm speaking more of economic suffering than the excesses of the evolving security aparatus. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/census-shows-1-2-people-103940568.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/census-shows-1-2-people-103940...
    - 3amOpsGuy 14y ago
      See that's where i worry about myself. My immediate thought is, how do i get myself on that gravy train :-)
      - ktizo 14y ago
        Buy stocks in weapons, private military, makers of silly hats and A&E hospitals.
    - maayank 14y ago
      Proper civics and all-rounded technical and humanities education, preferably life long[1]. Without the humanities you will be left without an understanding of social repercussions, technical education helps you (in my experience) stay logical and methodological. [1] Journalism, wikipedia articles, books, adult education classes, when good and proper are all education.
  - LinXitoW 14y ago
    Relevant: http://xkcd.com/1013/ http://xkcd.com/1013/
debacle 14y ago
Most people (maybe 85% or more that I've met) don't understand the basis of the social contract. You are given two choices, you vote for one, and that's the extent of your control over your situation.
shimon_e 14y ago
> I've had friends consider me crazy for complaining - way after the time, I hasten to add - that I'd had a small deodorant can taken off me in airport security, which I'd then had to purchase in the duty free shop. No one believes your deodorant would take down a plane. It's just that no one wants to pay to back that belief up.
mtgx 14y ago
Was that guy in Norway part of a known terrorist group or something? Why isn't he a "madman" like the one in Aurora, US last week? I do find terrifying what's happening in UK lately, seemingly all of the sudden from those of us not living there, like that new law proposal to monitor everyone's private communications. Not too long ago that kind of proposal would've been seen as insane. Now it seems a lot of politicians are taking it seriously, as if history before the past 20 years doesn't even exist, and we've all started from scratch 20 years ago. They now think monitoring everyone is a "necessary" thing to prevent the "evils" of the world. Also, in US, isn't it strange how they don't talk about terrorists "hating us for our freedoms" anymore? Is it because they've realized what a stupid statement that was to begin with, or because they know they're taking them away one by now one, and it's best not to mention this dirty word "freedom" anymore?
- philwelch 14y ago
  It's because of that nebulous "they". The "they" who said terrorists hate us for our freedom was George W. Bush, the erstwhile President. He has been out of office for three years now.
- thelibrarian 14y ago
  The Colorado guy is a "madman" because he went on a killing spree for the sake of killing, whereas Breivik went on a killing spree for explicitly political ends, thus is a terrorist.
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    No. He's a madman because the media can't comprehend any other possible explanation. Breivik isn't a madman because it's Norway, and that's a long way away. I'm sure the Aurora guy had his "reasons", just like Breivik. It all just relates to how we rationalise a position we don't understand. I'd call neither of them a madman or terrorist. To Add: I seem to recall there were media sources calling Breivik a madman (I helped keep the Wikipedia article under control at the time it happened and saw a lot of material go past). But they were less widespread because we could hang him off a political boom; right wing extremism. But at the end of the day that was just Breivik rationalising what he did, to himself. Same thing about computer games that came up at the trial; he played FPS's for a year to make him insensitive to killing. And he made a big deal about hating what he did. Which one part of the media turns into "COMPUTER GAMES INSPIRE KILLER". The reality of course is that it was pure narcissism; he played the games to desensitise him because, in the movie plot where he is the star, the games desensitise him. Breivik builds a persona where he is the centre figure. Everything relates to him in some way - and killing those people "hurts" because that is part of the story. He still did it. Good reading for this is alone's "The Last Psychiatrist" blog. This one is about honor killings but it touches on a lot of the same points: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understand_what_we.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understan... Ultimately the Aurora killer will probably boil down to narcissism too. But the media needs a neat word to rationalise his actions; in this case madman. Because he is white and well educated - so they cannot comprehend any other explanation. If he were exactly the same person, but of muslim descent he would have been a terrorist.
praxulus 14y ago
London had to bring in the army largely because the private firm that had the contract to provide event security completely failed to hire enough security guards, and this became apparent far too late for London police to raise the necessary staff themselves. There were probably ways to avoid the army, but would have cost much more.
- infectoid 14y ago
  Would I be wrong in assuming that perhaps trained military personnel may be easier to deal with and more level headed than some plastic policeman with a weekend certificate in security and law enforcement? Just putting it out there. It could be better than the alternative.
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    They should have just given it to the army; well trained, competent and reliable. Budget half as much to give the service personnel nice bonuses. Sorted.
  - notimetorelax 14y ago
    In Geneva(Switzerland) they tried to use military at protests some 20-30 years ago. Some people were killed, thing is military are trained to kill if they are being attacked. As far as I know they haven't used military personnel after that...
    - infectoid 14y ago
      Good point. Didn't think about that. I just feel like my order of trust (for law enforcers) goes something like this: 1) Military personnel 2) Police 3) * 4) Private security * In general I trust anything or anyone over private security.
carlosaguayo 14y ago
I still wonder why while there's technology so advanced that can see under your clothes, there isn't technology or common sense to figure out that a bottle of water is completely safe ...

rickmb 14y ago

If people accept it without complaining, it works exactly as intended. Let's not assume the people implementing these measures are complete morons. There's power to be gained and money to be made from a submissive, unquestioning people.

sliverstorm 14y ago
You forgot to add, "Wake up sheeple!"
- seabee 14y ago
  We've been yelling at the sheeple long enough to know it's ineffective. What I want to know is what would it take to wake them?
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    Suffering will eventually wake them up, but by then the opportunities to do something about it will be considerably less.
    - zecho 14y ago
      "...and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." One wonders the level of suffering people actually endure by having to purchase new deodorant at the duty free.
      - mcantelon 14y ago
        I'm speaking more of economic suffering than the excesses of the evolving security aparatus. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/census-shows-1-2-people-103940568.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/census-shows-1-2-people-103940...
  - 3amOpsGuy 14y ago
    See that's where i worry about myself. My immediate thought is, how do i get myself on that gravy train :-)
    - ktizo 14y ago
      Buy stocks in weapons, private military, makers of silly hats and A&E hospitals.
  - maayank 14y ago
    Proper civics and all-rounded technical and humanities education, preferably life long[1]. Without the humanities you will be left without an understanding of social repercussions, technical education helps you (in my experience) stay logical and methodological. [1] Journalism, wikipedia articles, books, adult education classes, when good and proper are all education.
- LinXitoW 14y ago
  Relevant: http://xkcd.com/1013/ http://xkcd.com/1013/

debacle 14y ago

Most people (maybe 85% or more that I've met) don't understand the basis of the social contract. You are given two choices, you vote for one, and that's the extent of your control over your situation.

shimon_e 14y ago

> I've had friends consider me crazy for complaining - way after the time, I hasten to add - that I'd had a small deodorant can taken off me in airport security, which I'd then had to purchase in the duty free shop. No one believes your deodorant would take down a plane. It's just that no one wants to pay to back that belief up.

mtgx 14y ago

Was that guy in Norway part of a known terrorist group or something? Why isn't he a "madman" like the one in Aurora, US last week? I do find terrifying what's happening in UK lately, seemingly all of the sudden from those of us not living there, like that new law proposal to monitor everyone's private communications. Not too long ago that kind of proposal would've been seen as insane. Now it seems a lot of politicians are taking it seriously, as if history before the past 20 years doesn't even exist, and we've all started from scratch 20 years ago. They now think monitoring everyone is a "necessary" thing to prevent the "evils" of the world. Also, in US, isn't it strange how they don't talk about terrorists "hating us for our freedoms" anymore? Is it because they've realized what a stupid statement that was to begin with, or because they know they're taking them away one by now one, and it's best not to mention this dirty word "freedom" anymore?

philwelch 14y ago
It's because of that nebulous "they". The "they" who said terrorists hate us for our freedom was George W. Bush, the erstwhile President. He has been out of office for three years now.
thelibrarian 14y ago
The Colorado guy is a "madman" because he went on a killing spree for the sake of killing, whereas Breivik went on a killing spree for explicitly political ends, thus is a terrorist.
- ErrantX 14y ago
  No. He's a madman because the media can't comprehend any other possible explanation. Breivik isn't a madman because it's Norway, and that's a long way away. I'm sure the Aurora guy had his "reasons", just like Breivik. It all just relates to how we rationalise a position we don't understand. I'd call neither of them a madman or terrorist. To Add: I seem to recall there were media sources calling Breivik a madman (I helped keep the Wikipedia article under control at the time it happened and saw a lot of material go past). But they were less widespread because we could hang him off a political boom; right wing extremism. But at the end of the day that was just Breivik rationalising what he did, to himself. Same thing about computer games that came up at the trial; he played FPS's for a year to make him insensitive to killing. And he made a big deal about hating what he did. Which one part of the media turns into "COMPUTER GAMES INSPIRE KILLER". The reality of course is that it was pure narcissism; he played the games to desensitise him because, in the movie plot where he is the star, the games desensitise him. Breivik builds a persona where he is the centre figure. Everything relates to him in some way - and killing those people "hurts" because that is part of the story. He still did it. Good reading for this is alone's "The Last Psychiatrist" blog. This one is about honor killings but it touches on a lot of the same points: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understand_what_we.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understan... Ultimately the Aurora killer will probably boil down to narcissism too. But the media needs a neat word to rationalise his actions; in this case madman. Because he is white and well educated - so they cannot comprehend any other explanation. If he were exactly the same person, but of muslim descent he would have been a terrorist.

praxulus 14y ago

London had to bring in the army largely because the private firm that had the contract to provide event security completely failed to hire enough security guards, and this became apparent far too late for London police to raise the necessary staff themselves. There were probably ways to avoid the army, but would have cost much more.

infectoid 14y ago
Would I be wrong in assuming that perhaps trained military personnel may be easier to deal with and more level headed than some plastic policeman with a weekend certificate in security and law enforcement? Just putting it out there. It could be better than the alternative.
- ErrantX 14y ago
  They should have just given it to the army; well trained, competent and reliable. Budget half as much to give the service personnel nice bonuses. Sorted.
- notimetorelax 14y ago
  In Geneva(Switzerland) they tried to use military at protests some 20-30 years ago. Some people were killed, thing is military are trained to kill if they are being attacked. As far as I know they haven't used military personnel after that...
  - infectoid 14y ago
    Good point. Didn't think about that. I just feel like my order of trust (for law enforcers) goes something like this: 1) Military personnel 2) Police 3) * 4) Private security * In general I trust anything or anyone over private security.

carlosaguayo 14y ago

I still wonder why while there's technology so advanced that can see under your clothes, there isn't technology or common sense to figure out that a bottle of water is completely safe ...