6 ms·

I have ADHD, and I am certain that most of the reduced life expectancy is from chronic stress- a well established killer. With ADHD you frequently don’t have th

by _yb2s 2y ago

I have ADHD, and I am certain that most of the reduced life expectancy is from chronic stress- a well established killer. With ADHD you frequently don’t have the executive control to do what you decided to do, and needs to get done. This leads to constantly being terrified of failing at everything, and letting everyone in your life down. Often calling yourself (and being called by others) lazy, unreliable, disorganized, etc. even when you care deeply and are doing everything you can to succeed. It would be nice to figure out what can be done about this. I’ve found I usually have dangerously high blood pressure, but a few minutes of slow exhale breathing exercises and a short walk brings it down to normal. Which I usually feel I am too stressed and busy to do.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
Depression is a common co-morbidity also.
- AutistiCoder 2y ago
  probably as a result of all the systemic issues surrounding ADHD.
  - heyjamesknight 2y ago
    It's much simpler and more biomechanical than that. ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder. Effort without dopamine is extremely difficult in anyone, and ADHD makes it tough for these dopamine mechanisms to get going. Once that dopamine effect does get going, you're off to the races. That's the ADHD Hyperfocus effect you see. But when you add in the modern quick dopamine fixes we've surrounded ourselves with—media, social media, processed foods, pornography, etc.—you've built a situation where ADHD individuals are prioritizing those activities over productive ones. This leads to a downward spiral: less productive action means fewer opportunities for future productive actions. Lock into that mode for weeks at a time and you've got both situationally-supported and biochemical depression.
    - hirvi74 2y ago
      > ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder. This is still merely hypothetical is it not? I have noticed people home in on dopamine, but no one ever mentions serotonin, glutamate, gaba, and all the other neurochemical systems. I also thought the biochemical basis for depression has been completely thrown out, is that also not true?
      - _yb2s 2y ago
        Yeah, we don't understand nearly enough about the brain to have a very mechanistic view of ADHD. With so many different types on a spectrum, and sometimes symptoms being caused by things like physical trauma or infection, it is likely there are different possible mechanisms. However, it certainly appears like dopamine is highly involved, but noepinephrine also seems to be involved as well. Medically, it is defined symptomatically, and not mechanistically.
    - TheLegace 2y ago
      It’s not that simple. The brain is a very complex system and once you get other components of your brain to a neurotypical baseline or even better ADHD is a gift. Those regions being sensory motor cortex and prefrontal cortex. But simply its a system of networks and attention regulation. Those networks can be trained and I have experienced it first hand by reversing engineering my own brain and training it beyond normal baseline. This training is called neurofeedback and it transformed my ADHD into a super power. During my evaluation my ability to focus(was measured) was worse than the average ADHD person. Afterwards it was above even normal people. I need don't even consider myself someone with ADHD and everything just seems to come together naturally. ( Deadlines, managing details, time management and planning- all prefrontal cortex) The networks in my brain have been training to switch normally, and hyper focusing is just focusing but on anything I really want. It was the cure I’d been searching for my whole life and it actually worked.
      - bruce343434 2y ago
        Can you divulge more details about your neurofeedback training? What was it like, how long did it take, how did they measure the brain, what stimulus and which "punishment" for bad brain behavior was used?
  - hirvi74 2y ago
    I completely agree with this. It's hard to not feel like a failure, you don't belong, low motivation, etc. when other people constantly reinforce this idea with both their words and their actions. I think a lot of this fuels the substance abuse issues in ADHD as well. I have always spent too much time playing video games, doom scrolling, etc.. It's all just an escape. But I think many do not understand -- I, and perhaps many others, escape from this world because I do not belong. Treatments for ADHD are cute and all, but nothing I have tried has really moved the needle much. At least not for long. There is always a reversion to the mean, and this condition always wins in the end.
seizethecheese 2y ago
Yep. Immense stress can also be a learned proactive tactic. You build up stress via procrastination until the level is high enough to overcome any disfunction.
- tstrimple 2y ago
  I called it anxiety based development when I was in dev roles. Worked okay up until the physical symptoms forced me to find alternatives. The alternative for me is I no longer write code for a living.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    What do you do now, and is it better?
    - tstrimple 2y ago
      I moved from development to architecture and that helped for a few years. New focus different things to learn. Then the same things started happening there. I moved more into management and was good there for a bit and then same patterns emerged. Jumped to consulting and it’s the same story. Now am exploring more “leadership” style roles. I realize I personally do a LOT better when I’m actively learning and doing new things in a job. If it’s something I know I can do and have done it many times it’s like my mind refuses to engage eventually unless the anxiety overrides it. It’s getting more difficult though. Especially with consulting giving me insights into how dozens of very large technology orgs are run. The problems are almost always the same and it’s rarely technical. I used to always enjoy starting at new companies. But more and more it’s just the exact same patterns and even that is rarely engaging. At some point I think I’ll have to leave tech altogether and explore something completely different. Just hope I can survive until the kids are out exploring on their own so I can take a break on the cash flow demands.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  It's taken me most of a lifetime to figure out that this is kind of the opposite of the right way to deal with the problem. You're effectively fighting fire with fire, and the whole thing needs to not be a fight at all.
9dev 2y ago
This is so hard to explain, especially to people dear to you. Like, how many times can you say I‘m sorry, I didn’t ignore your messages on purpose, I just… couldn’t before they grow tired of it? And at the same time you notice how you desperately long for the contact, but the guilt and shame for letting people wait indefinitely makes it ever harder to actually reach out. It’s a devious cycle, and constant source of ever-increasing stress. Don’t have energy cause I fucked things up, fuck things up because I don’t have energy.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  I know, there is nothing I hate more than letting people down and yet end up doing so multiple times per day- and it’s demoralizing. I have so many systems, reminders, etc. that do help a lot but not enough.
AutistiCoder 2y ago
also, you're less likely than the general population to get hired and more likely to be fired if you do get a job.
- hirvi74 2y ago
  Good luck getting any help if you live in one of the only countries that has healthcare tied to employment. It's easy to slip into a hole with almost no way out.
giantg2 2y ago
I wonder if chronic stress leads to a reduced life expectancy for ASD too?
enragedcacti 2y ago
Substance abuse, suicide, and impulsive behavior are also likely contributors[1]. There are multiple studies that have found medication is associated with a significant reductions in unnatural deaths [2][3]. It really is underappreciated IMO that ADHD medications are some of the most effective pharmacological interventions in all of psychiatry. There are risks and concerns but by and large they are figuratively and literally life-saving. [1] https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence#premature-death https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence#premature-death [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10936112/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10936112/ [3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10901868/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10901868/
- DontchaKnowit 2y ago
  I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil. It absolutely ruined my life for the 8 years I was on it. Fucked my health up, fucked my personality up, fucked my interpersonal relationships up, etc. But hey I was slightly better at focusing at work. Kinda. When I wasnt habitually dopamine chasing by playing video games or jerking off
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    > I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil. Fortunately, we now have options other than amphetamines, but yes, in general, like most diseases, ADHD is categorized by symptoms, not really causes, and so lots of treatments that work wonderfully for some people with ADHD are literally the worst thing for other people with ADHD.
    - moltar 2y ago
      What are the new options? Thank you.
      - cbsmith 2y ago
        So, on the medication side, there are NRIs (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) and alpha-2A agonists. The latter in particular work kind of the opposite of stimulants. A psychiatrists described the difference to me with the metaphor of a sound system where you're having trouble listening to the music. The stimulants are amplifiers that push up the volume. The other approach is a better preamp that does a better job reducing the noise. Depending on the nature of your problem, one is going to help a lot, and the other is going to be useless at best, but could well make the problem worse. I presume you're aware of the other non-pharmaceutical interventions, like CBT. Generally they don't have as high a success rate, but that doesn't mean that they aren't be the right solution for you.
mantas 2y ago
Simplify your life, go cheap and use extra time to both reduce stress and spend less time in stressful situations. I’m probably an undiagnosed ASD and that’s what I ended up doing and plan to take to more extreme level as life situation allows. Fancy stuff and „fitting in“ is not worth it.
- hirvi74 2y ago
  I am starting to come to this same conclusion. What is the point in playing the game if you can't win? If I accomplish all my goals and fulfill my ambitions, then what? I can just be like Ozymandias?
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    It is interesting to see so many people wrestling with this question. I think it is a break through moment for a lot of people to realize that you get one life and get to spend it however you choose. There are no rules, only tradeoffs. You can be a beach bum in South America, or a hermit goat farmer.
    - hirvi74 2y ago
      The reward center of my brain is probably all kinds of jacked up, so perhaps people get something from these accomplishments that I do not. However, I agree with you. I have noticed this sentiment is leaking into even otherwise health individuals too -- mainly Gen Z and younger. I guess society is heading towards some massive existential crisis. If AI eventually meets the predictions that some people have, then perhaps the issue will only get worse too.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Im not sure I follow, but I think there is something about it related to either age or generation. It seems like a lot of people are going through life on autopilot without thinking about what they really want, questioning what makes them happy, and ending up very dissatisfied with the results. I think there is something powerful about feeling like you chose the life you are living among the options available.
floxy 2y ago
People with ADHD are involved in more car crashes: https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/research-shows-strong-link-between-adhd-car-crashes-older-adult-drivers https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/research-shows-st... They are also at higher risk for any type of unintentional injury: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10107297/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10107297/ I believe that people with ADHD are over-represented in first-responder type careers, which also carries more risk: https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-wellness/articles/distracted-impulsive-understanding-adhd-in-first-responders-K0N3YlP94MxGJaYa/ https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-well... And are know to engage in more risky behavior in general: https://neurolaunch.com/no-sense-of-danger-adhd/ https://neurolaunch.com/no-sense-of-danger-adhd/ And substance abuse among those with ADHD is much higher than the general population: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adhd-and-substance-abuse-is-there-a-link https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adhd-and-substance-abuse-is-t...
- hirvi74 2y ago
  I am somewhat skeptical of the car crash research. Being "involved" in a car accident does not paint a clear enough picture. I think it would be more interesting to see that data on whether people with ADHD are more likely to be found at fault in car accidents. With cellphones and other distractions now, I feel like the data would be even harder to parse through. Is a person with ADHD more likely than the average person to text while driving? I do not think that would be an incorrect assumption, but I would like to see data suggesting this.
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    Fault is a tricky term in this context. Humans face a number of challenges when driving. Cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have all evolved to help them meet those challenges, but it is all shaped by our expectations of the humans. When a human doesn't perform to those expectations, we say it is their fault. When an accident occurs despite them meeting those expectations, it's not their fault. But folks with ADHD have brains that don't match society's expectations; cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have not evolved to help them. Their brains are effectively a chaos factor for all the safeguards we have in place... Even their advantages can be disadvantages because everything was designed to help someone who didn't have them. Even if an accident wasn't their fault, I think it's quite credible that people with ADHD might just be more likely to be in situations where there is a higher risk of an accident... and I'd expect it'd be more common for accidents to be their "fault", because again, how we determine fault is defined by expectations they conform to.
cbsmith 2y ago
Stress is certainly a killer, but it's a facet of a broader factor. Society has built up a lot of systems to support people, to protect us from our environment and ourselves, and they've been incredibly successful; average lifespans have increased dramatically... literally by decades. For the most part, these systems are built in response to and designed around how "we" expect peoples' brains work. If your brain doesn't work those ways, many of those support systems are unnecessary, ineffective, or worse still: harmful. There's also no doubt a bunch of systems that could be designed & built that could to help support & protect people with challenges that are largely non-existent for people whose brains work as we expect. That the combined consequence of this is less that a decade of life expectancy for people with ADHD is actually quite remarkable, but let's not kid ourselves: we could be doing so much better.
- hirvi74 2y ago
  > we could be doing so much better I do not see that happening in my life time. Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD -- relaxed deadlines, less emphasis on productivity, valuing human lives over profits, etc.. Maybe someday in the future AI can take much of the burden off us, but till then, I only see things getting worse.
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    > Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD Yeah, I wouldn't expect that modern society is going to value things that would help people with ADHD. One might hope that modern society might value people with ADHD, at least enough to help them some. It's not like society's expectations of people don't change over time. They do. That said, my statement that "we could be doing so much better" wasn't really a hopefully statement. It was more a statement of fact, and a recognition that society's expectations are killing a lot of people with ADHD.
morkalork 2y ago
I find that stress leads to this endless cycle of drinking at night to clam the brain (otherwise I spend half the night panicking and ruminating over every little thing), followed by energy drinks the next day to keep focused without taking proper medication. I ended up having to quit most of it when the toll on the body was too much after years and years.
- dwaltrip 2y ago
  There are other ways. Please get help if you can, you deserve it. We all deserve help in overcoming the obstacles we face. I made the most progress once I got help in accepting and loving myself, thanking parts of me for fighting hard to take care of me and get where I am, and gently letting go of old patterns that don’t serve me anymore. A good therapist (hard to find) can help immensely Wishing you the best.

by _yb2s 2y ago

amanaplanacanal 2y ago

Depression is a common co-morbidity also.

AutistiCoder 2y ago
probably as a result of all the systemic issues surrounding ADHD.
- heyjamesknight 2y ago
  It's much simpler and more biomechanical than that. ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder. Effort without dopamine is extremely difficult in anyone, and ADHD makes it tough for these dopamine mechanisms to get going. Once that dopamine effect does get going, you're off to the races. That's the ADHD Hyperfocus effect you see. But when you add in the modern quick dopamine fixes we've surrounded ourselves with—media, social media, processed foods, pornography, etc.—you've built a situation where ADHD individuals are prioritizing those activities over productive ones. This leads to a downward spiral: less productive action means fewer opportunities for future productive actions. Lock into that mode for weeks at a time and you've got both situationally-supported and biochemical depression.
  - hirvi74 2y ago
    > ADHD at its core is a dopamine disorder. This is still merely hypothetical is it not? I have noticed people home in on dopamine, but no one ever mentions serotonin, glutamate, gaba, and all the other neurochemical systems. I also thought the biochemical basis for depression has been completely thrown out, is that also not true?
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      Yeah, we don't understand nearly enough about the brain to have a very mechanistic view of ADHD. With so many different types on a spectrum, and sometimes symptoms being caused by things like physical trauma or infection, it is likely there are different possible mechanisms. However, it certainly appears like dopamine is highly involved, but noepinephrine also seems to be involved as well. Medically, it is defined symptomatically, and not mechanistically.
  - TheLegace 2y ago
    It’s not that simple. The brain is a very complex system and once you get other components of your brain to a neurotypical baseline or even better ADHD is a gift. Those regions being sensory motor cortex and prefrontal cortex. But simply its a system of networks and attention regulation. Those networks can be trained and I have experienced it first hand by reversing engineering my own brain and training it beyond normal baseline. This training is called neurofeedback and it transformed my ADHD into a super power. During my evaluation my ability to focus(was measured) was worse than the average ADHD person. Afterwards it was above even normal people. I need don't even consider myself someone with ADHD and everything just seems to come together naturally. ( Deadlines, managing details, time management and planning- all prefrontal cortex) The networks in my brain have been training to switch normally, and hyper focusing is just focusing but on anything I really want. It was the cure I’d been searching for my whole life and it actually worked.
    - bruce343434 2y ago
      Can you divulge more details about your neurofeedback training? What was it like, how long did it take, how did they measure the brain, what stimulus and which "punishment" for bad brain behavior was used?
- hirvi74 2y ago
  I completely agree with this. It's hard to not feel like a failure, you don't belong, low motivation, etc. when other people constantly reinforce this idea with both their words and their actions. I think a lot of this fuels the substance abuse issues in ADHD as well. I have always spent too much time playing video games, doom scrolling, etc.. It's all just an escape. But I think many do not understand -- I, and perhaps many others, escape from this world because I do not belong. Treatments for ADHD are cute and all, but nothing I have tried has really moved the needle much. At least not for long. There is always a reversion to the mean, and this condition always wins in the end.

seizethecheese 2y ago

Yep. Immense stress can also be a learned proactive tactic. You build up stress via procrastination until the level is high enough to overcome any disfunction.

tstrimple 2y ago
I called it anxiety based development when I was in dev roles. Worked okay up until the physical symptoms forced me to find alternatives. The alternative for me is I no longer write code for a living.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  What do you do now, and is it better?
  - tstrimple 2y ago
    I moved from development to architecture and that helped for a few years. New focus different things to learn. Then the same things started happening there. I moved more into management and was good there for a bit and then same patterns emerged. Jumped to consulting and it’s the same story. Now am exploring more “leadership” style roles. I realize I personally do a LOT better when I’m actively learning and doing new things in a job. If it’s something I know I can do and have done it many times it’s like my mind refuses to engage eventually unless the anxiety overrides it. It’s getting more difficult though. Especially with consulting giving me insights into how dozens of very large technology orgs are run. The problems are almost always the same and it’s rarely technical. I used to always enjoy starting at new companies. But more and more it’s just the exact same patterns and even that is rarely engaging. At some point I think I’ll have to leave tech altogether and explore something completely different. Just hope I can survive until the kids are out exploring on their own so I can take a break on the cash flow demands.
cbsmith 2y ago
It's taken me most of a lifetime to figure out that this is kind of the opposite of the right way to deal with the problem. You're effectively fighting fire with fire, and the whole thing needs to not be a fight at all.

9dev 2y ago

This is so hard to explain, especially to people dear to you. Like, how many times can you say I‘m sorry, I didn’t ignore your messages on purpose, I just… couldn’t before they grow tired of it? And at the same time you notice how you desperately long for the contact, but the guilt and shame for letting people wait indefinitely makes it ever harder to actually reach out. It’s a devious cycle, and constant source of ever-increasing stress. Don’t have energy cause I fucked things up, fuck things up because I don’t have energy.

_yb2s 2y ago
I know, there is nothing I hate more than letting people down and yet end up doing so multiple times per day- and it’s demoralizing. I have so many systems, reminders, etc. that do help a lot but not enough.

AutistiCoder 2y ago

also, you're less likely than the general population to get hired and more likely to be fired if you do get a job.

hirvi74 2y ago
Good luck getting any help if you live in one of the only countries that has healthcare tied to employment. It's easy to slip into a hole with almost no way out.

giantg2 2y ago

I wonder if chronic stress leads to a reduced life expectancy for ASD too?

enragedcacti 2y ago

Substance abuse, suicide, and impulsive behavior are also likely contributors[1]. There are multiple studies that have found medication is associated with a significant reductions in unnatural deaths [2][3]. It really is underappreciated IMO that ADHD medications are some of the most effective pharmacological interventions in all of psychiatry. There are risks and concerns but by and large they are figuratively and literally life-saving. [1] https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence#premature-death https://www.adhdevidence.org/evidence#premature-death [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10936112/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10936112/ [3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10901868/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10901868/

DontchaKnowit 2y ago
I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil. It absolutely ruined my life for the 8 years I was on it. Fucked my health up, fucked my personality up, fucked my interpersonal relationships up, etc. But hey I was slightly better at focusing at work. Kinda. When I wasnt habitually dopamine chasing by playing video games or jerking off
- cbsmith 2y ago
  > I guess it depends on the treatment, but amphetamine based adhd treatment was for me, the fucking devil. Fortunately, we now have options other than amphetamines, but yes, in general, like most diseases, ADHD is categorized by symptoms, not really causes, and so lots of treatments that work wonderfully for some people with ADHD are literally the worst thing for other people with ADHD.
  - moltar 2y ago
    What are the new options? Thank you.
    - cbsmith 2y ago
      So, on the medication side, there are NRIs (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) and alpha-2A agonists. The latter in particular work kind of the opposite of stimulants. A psychiatrists described the difference to me with the metaphor of a sound system where you're having trouble listening to the music. The stimulants are amplifiers that push up the volume. The other approach is a better preamp that does a better job reducing the noise. Depending on the nature of your problem, one is going to help a lot, and the other is going to be useless at best, but could well make the problem worse. I presume you're aware of the other non-pharmaceutical interventions, like CBT. Generally they don't have as high a success rate, but that doesn't mean that they aren't be the right solution for you.

mantas 2y ago

Simplify your life, go cheap and use extra time to both reduce stress and spend less time in stressful situations. I’m probably an undiagnosed ASD and that’s what I ended up doing and plan to take to more extreme level as life situation allows. Fancy stuff and „fitting in“ is not worth it.

hirvi74 2y ago
I am starting to come to this same conclusion. What is the point in playing the game if you can't win? If I accomplish all my goals and fulfill my ambitions, then what? I can just be like Ozymandias?
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  It is interesting to see so many people wrestling with this question. I think it is a break through moment for a lot of people to realize that you get one life and get to spend it however you choose. There are no rules, only tradeoffs. You can be a beach bum in South America, or a hermit goat farmer.
  - hirvi74 2y ago
    The reward center of my brain is probably all kinds of jacked up, so perhaps people get something from these accomplishments that I do not. However, I agree with you. I have noticed this sentiment is leaking into even otherwise health individuals too -- mainly Gen Z and younger. I guess society is heading towards some massive existential crisis. If AI eventually meets the predictions that some people have, then perhaps the issue will only get worse too.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Im not sure I follow, but I think there is something about it related to either age or generation. It seems like a lot of people are going through life on autopilot without thinking about what they really want, questioning what makes them happy, and ending up very dissatisfied with the results. I think there is something powerful about feeling like you chose the life you are living among the options available.

floxy 2y ago

People with ADHD are involved in more car crashes: https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/research-shows-strong-link-between-adhd-car-crashes-older-adult-drivers https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/research-shows-st... They are also at higher risk for any type of unintentional injury: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10107297/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10107297/ I believe that people with ADHD are over-represented in first-responder type careers, which also carries more risk: https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-wellness/articles/distracted-impulsive-understanding-adhd-in-first-responders-K0N3YlP94MxGJaYa/ https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/fitness-mental-health-well... And are know to engage in more risky behavior in general: https://neurolaunch.com/no-sense-of-danger-adhd/ https://neurolaunch.com/no-sense-of-danger-adhd/ And substance abuse among those with ADHD is much higher than the general population: https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adhd-and-substance-abuse-is-there-a-link https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adhd-and-substance-abuse-is-t...

hirvi74 2y ago
I am somewhat skeptical of the car crash research. Being "involved" in a car accident does not paint a clear enough picture. I think it would be more interesting to see that data on whether people with ADHD are more likely to be found at fault in car accidents. With cellphones and other distractions now, I feel like the data would be even harder to parse through. Is a person with ADHD more likely than the average person to text while driving? I do not think that would be an incorrect assumption, but I would like to see data suggesting this.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  Fault is a tricky term in this context. Humans face a number of challenges when driving. Cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have all evolved to help them meet those challenges, but it is all shaped by our expectations of the humans. When a human doesn't perform to those expectations, we say it is their fault. When an accident occurs despite them meeting those expectations, it's not their fault. But folks with ADHD have brains that don't match society's expectations; cars, roads, laws, traffic systems, etc. have not evolved to help them. Their brains are effectively a chaos factor for all the safeguards we have in place... Even their advantages can be disadvantages because everything was designed to help someone who didn't have them. Even if an accident wasn't their fault, I think it's quite credible that people with ADHD might just be more likely to be in situations where there is a higher risk of an accident... and I'd expect it'd be more common for accidents to be their "fault", because again, how we determine fault is defined by expectations they conform to.

cbsmith 2y ago

Stress is certainly a killer, but it's a facet of a broader factor. Society has built up a lot of systems to support people, to protect us from our environment and ourselves, and they've been incredibly successful; average lifespans have increased dramatically... literally by decades. For the most part, these systems are built in response to and designed around how "we" expect peoples' brains work. If your brain doesn't work those ways, many of those support systems are unnecessary, ineffective, or worse still: harmful. There's also no doubt a bunch of systems that could be designed & built that could to help support & protect people with challenges that are largely non-existent for people whose brains work as we expect. That the combined consequence of this is less that a decade of life expectancy for people with ADHD is actually quite remarkable, but let's not kid ourselves: we could be doing so much better.

hirvi74 2y ago
> we could be doing so much better I do not see that happening in my life time. Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD -- relaxed deadlines, less emphasis on productivity, valuing human lives over profits, etc.. Maybe someday in the future AI can take much of the burden off us, but till then, I only see things getting worse.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  > Modern society values none of the things that would help people with ADHD Yeah, I wouldn't expect that modern society is going to value things that would help people with ADHD. One might hope that modern society might value people with ADHD, at least enough to help them some. It's not like society's expectations of people don't change over time. They do. That said, my statement that "we could be doing so much better" wasn't really a hopefully statement. It was more a statement of fact, and a recognition that society's expectations are killing a lot of people with ADHD.

morkalork 2y ago

I find that stress leads to this endless cycle of drinking at night to clam the brain (otherwise I spend half the night panicking and ruminating over every little thing), followed by energy drinks the next day to keep focused without taking proper medication. I ended up having to quit most of it when the toll on the body was too much after years and years.

dwaltrip 2y ago
There are other ways. Please get help if you can, you deserve it. We all deserve help in overcoming the obstacles we face. I made the most progress once I got help in accepting and loving myself, thanking parts of me for fighting hard to take care of me and get where I am, and gently letting go of old patterns that don’t serve me anymore. A good therapist (hard to find) can help immensely Wishing you the best.