5 ms·

Undiagnosed Cognitive Decline Eats into Seniors' Retirement Savings

102 points by petethomas 2y ago

chive_bot 2y ago
https://archive.today/PlV9l https://archive.today/PlV9l
- notpushkin 2y ago
  > chive_bot I’ve pitched a similar idea to dang maybe a month ago, he said it’s probably best left for humans. (Personally, I still think it would be useful tho!)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- bmacho 2y ago
  Can you do the longer links format? This article will be https://archive.today/20241103152858/https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/retirement/cognitive-decline-retirement-savings-4672b604 https://archive.today/20241103152858/https://www.wsj.com/per...
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Study: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/728697 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/728697 | https://doi.org/10.1086/728697 https://doi.org/10.1086/728697 (Paywalled unfortunately)
adenner 2y ago
The working paper version of this isn't paywalled https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/izaizadps/dp13725.htm https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/izaizadps/dp13725.htm
skirge 2y ago
no wealth, no loss
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  And don't forget inflation.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  In a way I would argue that the opposite is true. The less you have, the more devastating it is when you lose it.
kome 2y ago
i strongly oppose the American approach to pensions, which is regrettably spreading worldwide. relying on private savings to finance retirement is highly risky, and this is the crux of the article in question. pension systems should be administered through public programs, not turned into moralistic contests in which individuals are penalized if their investments fail for any reason (and it's only their fault... while it's clear it's a social failure). basic solidarity is essential in ensuring both the health of retirees and the fulfillment of reasonable expectations for a secure retirement.
- KK7NIL 2y ago
  Public pension schemes always end up being turned into Ponzi schemes for short term political gain, especially as birthrates keep dropping. US social security and Medicare are a great example of this but you'll find similar examples throughout the western world. In contrast private retirement plans put the individual in charge of their own retirement (why should the government be telling you when to retire?) and doesn't put a financial burden on unborn generations.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    > financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.
    - dsheets 2y ago
      Why must the money come from future labor? Money can be saved and invested. Let them eat their capital and not their young.
      - kome 2y ago
        investment is literally future labor expectations. and a risk. in case of crisis the gov routinely starts bailouts and save the financial markets with interest rate operations or open market operations. those operations have deep re-distributive implications. don't think they are free.
pjc50 2y ago
Under-rated problem. The decline is real, and towards the end of their life many people end up handing a power of attorney to their children or other close relative in order to run their lives. While in the meantime there are so many more internet-enabled scams.
- dachris 2y ago
  Google site:bogleheads.org elderly scams - the list goes on and on ... I've also got elderly relatives, and even with their pensions secure (European-style pension system), there's lots of people going after their money. Trying to prepare them for encounters with online and real world scammers is an ongoing process, e.g. by recounting the cases that I read in the news to foster mistrust. I've lost count how often an elderly family member (who is still sharp as a tack fortunately) told me that the "police", "your beloved niece", or "Microsoft" called them.
  - otoburb 2y ago
    >>I've lost count how often an elderly family member (who is still sharp as a tack fortunately) told me that the "police", "your beloved niece", or "Microsoft" called them. It's very sobering when we realize that we too will one day be just like them.
    - theamk 2y ago
      Right now my default reaction to phone call from unknown number is to ignore it instead of picking it up. Hopefully this will stay with me as I get older. (my parents are notably different in this default)
      - david-gpu 2y ago
        Caller IDs can be easily spoofed. For example, you may receive a call from what appears to be your bank's fraud department. The person on the other side of the line may warn you of some (fake) suspicious activity and "send you" a one-time security code to verify your identity. In reality, the scammer has already gained access to your email account and is now trying to log onto your bank account, for which they need the one-time code. There is an existing scam that goes something like that. I probably got some of the details wrong. Bottom line: do not trust any incoming calls.
qrsjutsu 2y ago
[dead]
thomas4151 2y ago
[dead]
Dig1t 2y ago
My prediction: scams that target this are going to massively increase. The majority of people I know are not planning on having kids. There’s a huge percentage of my generation who are the last of their family and will have nobody to manage their estate when they start declining cognitively. There’s going to be a big opportunity for scammers and even legit businesses to vacuum up all of their wealth.
- foxglacier 2y ago
  Though birth rates are declining, also age of mothers having their first child is increasing so depending on your friends' ages, it might not be as bad as it seems. They may say no up to their early 30's but change their mind by their late 30's. For fathers, who are generally older, that could happen in their 40's. It did for me. I wonder what proportion of women would naturally want to have children if there was no social or economic pressure either way. I suspect it's higher than the proportion of professional women who have children because low-income women do so at a higher rate. So we may have a generation of lonely old people sitting on a pile of money and being doubly vulnerable to scams.
- S_Bear 2y ago
  I don't know, my lifetime lack of affordable healthcare probably means I'll die unexpectedly before my mind goes. So that's nice.
htrp 2y ago
>>But the data showed that losses were concentrated among those in the upper 25% of wealth distribution who were unaware of their cognitive decline and reported being active in the stock market, the paper said. Less likely that your elderly relatives get scammed and more likely they yolo some crazy thing like quantum computing triple levered etfs

102 points by petethomas 2y ago

chive_bot 2y ago

https://archive.today/PlV9l https://archive.today/PlV9l

notpushkin 2y ago
> chive_bot I’ve pitched a similar idea to dang maybe a month ago, he said it’s probably best left for humans. (Personally, I still think it would be useful tho!)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
bmacho 2y ago
Can you do the longer links format? This article will be https://archive.today/20241103152858/https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/retirement/cognitive-decline-retirement-savings-4672b604 https://archive.today/20241103152858/https://www.wsj.com/per...

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Study: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/728697 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/728697 | https://doi.org/10.1086/728697 https://doi.org/10.1086/728697 (Paywalled unfortunately)

adenner 2y ago

The working paper version of this isn't paywalled https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/izaizadps/dp13725.htm https://econpapers.repec.org/paper/izaizadps/dp13725.htm

skirge 2y ago

no wealth, no loss

dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
And don't forget inflation.
Etheryte 2y ago
In a way I would argue that the opposite is true. The less you have, the more devastating it is when you lose it.

kome 2y ago

i strongly oppose the American approach to pensions, which is regrettably spreading worldwide. relying on private savings to finance retirement is highly risky, and this is the crux of the article in question. pension systems should be administered through public programs, not turned into moralistic contests in which individuals are penalized if their investments fail for any reason (and it's only their fault... while it's clear it's a social failure). basic solidarity is essential in ensuring both the health of retirees and the fulfillment of reasonable expectations for a secure retirement.

KK7NIL 2y ago
Public pension schemes always end up being turned into Ponzi schemes for short term political gain, especially as birthrates keep dropping. US social security and Medicare are a great example of this but you'll find similar examples throughout the western world. In contrast private retirement plans put the individual in charge of their own retirement (why should the government be telling you when to retire?) and doesn't put a financial burden on unborn generations.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > financial burden on unborn generations. The money always has to come from the labour of the future somehow. So you get the same burden laundered through the private sector, such as young people having to pay extortionate rents to retired landlords.
  - dsheets 2y ago
    Why must the money come from future labor? Money can be saved and invested. Let them eat their capital and not their young.
    - kome 2y ago
      investment is literally future labor expectations. and a risk. in case of crisis the gov routinely starts bailouts and save the financial markets with interest rate operations or open market operations. those operations have deep re-distributive implications. don't think they are free.

pjc50 2y ago

Under-rated problem. The decline is real, and towards the end of their life many people end up handing a power of attorney to their children or other close relative in order to run their lives. While in the meantime there are so many more internet-enabled scams.

dachris 2y ago
Google site:bogleheads.org elderly scams - the list goes on and on ... I've also got elderly relatives, and even with their pensions secure (European-style pension system), there's lots of people going after their money. Trying to prepare them for encounters with online and real world scammers is an ongoing process, e.g. by recounting the cases that I read in the news to foster mistrust. I've lost count how often an elderly family member (who is still sharp as a tack fortunately) told me that the "police", "your beloved niece", or "Microsoft" called them.
- otoburb 2y ago
  >>I've lost count how often an elderly family member (who is still sharp as a tack fortunately) told me that the "police", "your beloved niece", or "Microsoft" called them. It's very sobering when we realize that we too will one day be just like them.
  - theamk 2y ago
    Right now my default reaction to phone call from unknown number is to ignore it instead of picking it up. Hopefully this will stay with me as I get older. (my parents are notably different in this default)
    - david-gpu 2y ago
      Caller IDs can be easily spoofed. For example, you may receive a call from what appears to be your bank's fraud department. The person on the other side of the line may warn you of some (fake) suspicious activity and "send you" a one-time security code to verify your identity. In reality, the scammer has already gained access to your email account and is now trying to log onto your bank account, for which they need the one-time code. There is an existing scam that goes something like that. I probably got some of the details wrong. Bottom line: do not trust any incoming calls.

qrsjutsu 2y ago

[dead]

thomas4151 2y ago

[dead]

Dig1t 2y ago

My prediction: scams that target this are going to massively increase. The majority of people I know are not planning on having kids. There’s a huge percentage of my generation who are the last of their family and will have nobody to manage their estate when they start declining cognitively. There’s going to be a big opportunity for scammers and even legit businesses to vacuum up all of their wealth.

foxglacier 2y ago
Though birth rates are declining, also age of mothers having their first child is increasing so depending on your friends' ages, it might not be as bad as it seems. They may say no up to their early 30's but change their mind by their late 30's. For fathers, who are generally older, that could happen in their 40's. It did for me. I wonder what proportion of women would naturally want to have children if there was no social or economic pressure either way. I suspect it's higher than the proportion of professional women who have children because low-income women do so at a higher rate. So we may have a generation of lonely old people sitting on a pile of money and being doubly vulnerable to scams.
S_Bear 2y ago
I don't know, my lifetime lack of affordable healthcare probably means I'll die unexpectedly before my mind goes. So that's nice.

htrp 2y ago

>>But the data showed that losses were concentrated among those in the upper 25% of wealth distribution who were unaware of their cognitive decline and reported being active in the stock market, the paper said. Less likely that your elderly relatives get scammed and more likely they yolo some crazy thing like quantum computing triple levered etfs