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Kind of a weird take. Don't places that are considered to have great public transport have lots of buses? Just as driverless trains are a thing, it seems obvio

Kind of a weird take. Don't places that are considered to have great public transport have lots of buses? Just as driverless trains are a thing, it seems obvious that buses should also mature to be driverless?

stego-tech 2y ago
And I articulate that position at the bottom of my screed. It could be, but only if cities actually maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on - and since no city in America does, all we’re really pitching here is eliminating a job to make service worse to justify cutting it entirely later. It’s the same blinders I see time and time again: you cannot solve an inherently political problem through technology alone.
- xnx 2y ago
  > maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on One of the innovations of modern self driving systems is not requiring any accomodation from the infrastructure. It's the same idea as "smart endpoints and dumb pipes".
- triceratops 2y ago
  > only if cities actually maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on You mean roads? Yeah I guess if a city isn't up to maintaining its roads, it's pretty f*cked anyway. > you cannot solve an inherently political problem through technology alone Often technology moves a problem away from the realm of politics. Politics is a game of allocating limited resources. If technology brings abundance, the question of allocation is way less important.
seabass-labrax 2y ago
Driverless trains are still only used on a minority of railways, and typically only on networks specifically designed for them. I would be very hesitant to support driverless buses with the currently available level of artificial intelligence: buses run on roads of various surfaces and dimensions, navigate around unpredictable diversions and share traffic with hundreds of other road users in a frighteningly complex system. Plus, even once you've designed a system that can do all that safely, you'll still need staff on board if you want to collect fare revenue.
- redox99 2y ago
  Waymo is pretty safe already and there's no reason to think technology won't keep improving. Fare evasion is an interesting point. Of course you can't completely avoid it, as it happens on rail too. But you could install a turnstile on the bus.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    in sf, even very wealthy people frequently fare evade bc enforcement is close to nonexistent

stego-tech 2y ago

And I articulate that position at the bottom of my screed. It could be, but only if cities actually maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on - and since no city in America does, all we’re really pitching here is eliminating a job to make service worse to justify cutting it entirely later. It’s the same blinders I see time and time again: you cannot solve an inherently political problem through technology alone.

xnx 2y ago
> maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on One of the innovations of modern self driving systems is not requiring any accomodation from the infrastructure. It's the same idea as "smart endpoints and dumb pipes".
triceratops 2y ago
> only if cities actually maintain the infrastructure those driverless busses run on You mean roads? Yeah I guess if a city isn't up to maintaining its roads, it's pretty f*cked anyway. > you cannot solve an inherently political problem through technology alone Often technology moves a problem away from the realm of politics. Politics is a game of allocating limited resources. If technology brings abundance, the question of allocation is way less important.

seabass-labrax 2y ago

Driverless trains are still only used on a minority of railways, and typically only on networks specifically designed for them. I would be very hesitant to support driverless buses with the currently available level of artificial intelligence: buses run on roads of various surfaces and dimensions, navigate around unpredictable diversions and share traffic with hundreds of other road users in a frighteningly complex system. Plus, even once you've designed a system that can do all that safely, you'll still need staff on board if you want to collect fare revenue.

redox99 2y ago
Waymo is pretty safe already and there's no reason to think technology won't keep improving. Fare evasion is an interesting point. Of course you can't completely avoid it, as it happens on rail too. But you could install a turnstile on the bus.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  in sf, even very wealthy people frequently fare evade bc enforcement is close to nonexistent