4 ms·

Do you seriously think the driver is a major factor in the cost of putting a bus on the road? How much does a bus cost?

by taneq 2y ago

Retric 2y ago
NYC bus drivers start at 27$/hour well above the other costs, and those buses are used ~80-100 hours per week. Classic school bus costs ~10k/year in depreciation and get 10 miles to the gallon making the driver at an average 18$/hour the largest cost even outside of cities.
MattDB101 2y ago
I can guarantee you it is a limiting factor. The majority of bus drivers are semi-retired folk looking for something to keep them active and earn a bit on the side. I'm speaking from experience.
- cozzyd 2y ago
  That definitely doesn't match the profile of most bus drivers I see. Maybe it's true in more rural areas.
triceratops 2y ago
A new bus costs about $400-900k (diesels are the cheapest, electric are the most expensive). I would guess a driver costs $60-90k year including taxes and benefits. Drivers aren't a majority of the cost of operating a bus, but I'd bet it's at least 20%.
- cozzyd 2y ago
  Starting pay for a CTA bus operator is like $27/hour, and can go up to $40/hour. I imagine other big cities are similar, so probably at least about 20% higher than that range, neglecting overtime. But a driver will work 40 hours a week, though presumably they're not inside a bus the whole time. A bus can be used upwards of 80-100 hours a week (though some will be used less). So operating a bus can be up to $200-250k/year. An average bus lasts around 12 years. So operating it is more expensive than buying it. There are other costs of course (maintenance, cleaning, fuel/electricity, upkeep of bus shelters, etc.), but I think operator cost dominates.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Yep, NYC specifically has several rules making things more expensive such as full days pay even if they only work 4h etc. There’s also HR costs etc. Fuel is also cheap as they are only averaging 7MPH even at 2-4MPG it’s just not touching 27+$/hour for the drivers.
  - xnx 2y ago
    "Personnel costs comprise nearly 70% of the CTA's operating expenses" https://www.transitchicago.com/cta-plans-120-million-in-cuts--efficiencies/ https://www.transitchicago.com/cta-plans-120-million-in-cuts... Per utilized seat, handmade diesel busses are way more expensive to buy and operate than commodity vehicles like Jaguar iPace or the Zeekr Mix.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      "Personnel costs" means every human working at the transit agency. Self-driving buses aren't going to eliminate the maintenance department at CTA. If anything it could grow because they might expand bus routes.
      - Retric 2y ago
        There’s far more bus drivers than maintenance workers. Further you need HR and managers to handle having a large driver workforce. So while drivers aren’t responsible for all of that 70%, they are a high percentage of it.
      - xnx 2y ago
        > Self-driving buses aren't going to eliminate the maintenance department at CTA By moving from specialty vehicles like large diesel busses to vehicles based on commodity/consumer minivans, it will be possible to multiple external services. This gives the taxpayer the benefit of scale and competition. There's no need for a monopoly in city transit. In a future state, we could have multiple transit providers, similar to how airlines operate today.
    - cozzyd 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Do you seriously think the driver is a major factor in the cost of putting a bus on the road? How much does a bus cost?

by taneq 2y ago

Do you seriously think the driver is a major factor in the cost of putting a bus on the road? How much does a bus cost?

NYC bus drivers start at 27$/hour well above the other costs, and those buses are used ~80-100 hours per week. Classic school bus costs ~10k/year in depreciation and get 10 miles to the gallon making the driver at an average 18$/hour the largest cost even outside of cities.

MattDB101 2y ago

I can guarantee you it is a limiting factor. The majority of bus drivers are semi-retired folk looking for something to keep them active and earn a bit on the side. I'm speaking from experience.

cozzyd 2y ago
That definitely doesn't match the profile of most bus drivers I see. Maybe it's true in more rural areas.

triceratops 2y ago

A new bus costs about $400-900k (diesels are the cheapest, electric are the most expensive). I would guess a driver costs $60-90k year including taxes and benefits. Drivers aren't a majority of the cost of operating a bus, but I'd bet it's at least 20%.

cozzyd 2y ago
Starting pay for a CTA bus operator is like $27/hour, and can go up to $40/hour. I imagine other big cities are similar, so probably at least about 20% higher than that range, neglecting overtime. But a driver will work 40 hours a week, though presumably they're not inside a bus the whole time. A bus can be used upwards of 80-100 hours a week (though some will be used less). So operating a bus can be up to $200-250k/year. An average bus lasts around 12 years. So operating it is more expensive than buying it. There are other costs of course (maintenance, cleaning, fuel/electricity, upkeep of bus shelters, etc.), but I think operator cost dominates.
- Retric 2y ago
  Yep, NYC specifically has several rules making things more expensive such as full days pay even if they only work 4h etc. There’s also HR costs etc. Fuel is also cheap as they are only averaging 7MPH even at 2-4MPG it’s just not touching 27+$/hour for the drivers.
- xnx 2y ago
  "Personnel costs comprise nearly 70% of the CTA's operating expenses" https://www.transitchicago.com/cta-plans-120-million-in-cuts--efficiencies/ https://www.transitchicago.com/cta-plans-120-million-in-cuts... Per utilized seat, handmade diesel busses are way more expensive to buy and operate than commodity vehicles like Jaguar iPace or the Zeekr Mix.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    "Personnel costs" means every human working at the transit agency. Self-driving buses aren't going to eliminate the maintenance department at CTA. If anything it could grow because they might expand bus routes.
    - Retric 2y ago
      There’s far more bus drivers than maintenance workers. Further you need HR and managers to handle having a large driver workforce. So while drivers aren’t responsible for all of that 70%, they are a high percentage of it.
    - xnx 2y ago
      > Self-driving buses aren't going to eliminate the maintenance department at CTA By moving from specialty vehicles like large diesel busses to vehicles based on commodity/consumer minivans, it will be possible to multiple external services. This gives the taxpayer the benefit of scale and competition. There's no need for a monopoly in city transit. In a future state, we could have multiple transit providers, similar to how airlines operate today.
  - cozzyd 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]