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Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE which some people never wanted. It's good that it serves the needs of its fans, but it's also good that Vim stayed in

by wruza 2y ago

Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE which some people never wanted. It's good that it serves the needs of its fans, but it's also good that Vim stayed in its own tracks. Losing Vim as it is would be a great loss for many.

rob137 2y ago
What does 'pop-blink' mean in this context?
- wruza 2y ago
  Something pops out and blinks on itself while you are typing. At least that's what I've seen in neovim "ads" videos back in the day.
  - melodyogonna 2y ago
    Very annoying. I decided to move from manually creating my own config to using Astronvim and there were just so many distracting things in the default installation. The good thing is that you can disable what you don't want - which I did. The bad thing is that finding the right option or the actual plugin that is bringing the functionality you don't want takes some time.
    - CGamesPlay 2y ago
      Was the prebuilt configuration worth it in the end then? I recently started a from-scratch config and followed kickstart, which is pretty minimal and also not a plugin/distribution/self-updating thing, it’s just an example config file you can copy.
      - melodyogonna 2y ago
        Yeah. Once you understand the configuration it's really nice, it is also well documented.
    - wyclif 2y ago
      A good option is to start with kickstart.nvim. This allows you to build up from a very basic install, or keep the simple default install without a lot of plugins.
rand0m4r 2y ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the same thing. I also think that "stability" and the "community" are two other things that made me switch back to vim.
CGamesPlay 2y ago
I just set up a Neovim configuration from scratch and I have no idea what you are talking about. I did install a completion plugin literally called blink, but even that supports keybinding activation.
- wruza 2y ago
  My transition was unsuccessful for a differrent reason, although I still think that while being open to change, it’s ideologically correct to stay with ideas you are aligned with. When I tried it, nvim-qt was hard to associate with file extensions on windows (required something like “-- “filename”” in different shapes and hours of regedit debugging, can’t remember now), then nvim itself had issues with refreshing on manual window resize and with autoresizing the window on setting ‘lines’. And a few more os integration related issues. It was basically unusable gui-wise so I bailed out due to no good reason to stay. I was probably talking about that astro-thing that works like a christmas tree and was the main selling point at the time.
lawn 2y ago
> Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE What does that even mean? Just sounds like a lazy and false argument.
- wruza 2y ago
  It was a selling point back then and the reason for a fork. Bram didn’t want to add async tech into Vim, cause async enabled various parallel-to-you visual activities. Neovim forked and did async+lua on its own terms. Vim later added async functionality, and I think it was the best outcome. Vimers still got shy LSPs and Neovimers got whatever they dreamed about in their separate emvironment. Good fork. Things may have settled since then, maybe that’s why you think that this phrase looks odd.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Async is only a performance detail and using a degorary term as "pop-blink IDE" to refer to the choice to include async is wrong. I've been using Neovim since it forked and it has always offered a Vim-like experience, it's just that Neovim has given you more options. Maybe that's why some think it's too "blinky" as it's possible to turn it into a blinky IDE if you really want to because it's more capable (and some do).
    - wruza 2y ago
      What were these options? Something must have been very special to make a fork and not just a set of plugins. What was it, in terms of end-user features?
      - lawn 2y ago
        The feature I migrated for was async update and installation of plugins, and I used Neovim exactly as I used Vim a long time after that. It's just in recent years I've migrated to Lua and the large amount of Neovim specific plugins (many that heavily depend on async for non-blocking operation of for instance picking or completion).
jitl 2y ago
With no config file Neovim is just vim but with mouse mode enabled by default. With Lua and the new APIs it’s much easier to write powerful plugins that do crazy shit and use animation but none of that happens by default, you need to go out of your way to get that kind of action, same as with regular vim.
- sodapopcan 2y ago
  It's not, though. A bunch has been stripped out (interactive :!, :view, etc) and time only time will tell how much further they will drift apart.
  - kps 2y ago
    And as such neovim has dropped POSIX conformance (including things like `:!` as you mention, that I use regularly) and is apparently not interested in it. I wanted to like neovim for its possibly better lsp integration, but if all I need is an IDE with partial vi emulation, I might as well use VSCode.
  - Anthony-G 2y ago
    Thanks for that. I was thinking of trying NeoVim but I regularly use the `:!` feature to filter (selected) text through Unix utilities – and `:view` if I forget to use the `-R` option when opening a file that I don’t want to accidentally edit, e.g., log files.
    - ossusermivami 2y ago
      :! itself has not been stripped from neovim, it's the "interactive" :! that has been stripped (as the OP said) i.e if you do :!bash in vim you enter bash in neovim you won't
      - Anthony-G 2y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense and seems like a reasonable change to me.

by wruza 2y ago

rob137 2y ago

What does 'pop-blink' mean in this context?

wruza 2y ago
Something pops out and blinks on itself while you are typing. At least that's what I've seen in neovim "ads" videos back in the day.
- melodyogonna 2y ago
  Very annoying. I decided to move from manually creating my own config to using Astronvim and there were just so many distracting things in the default installation. The good thing is that you can disable what you don't want - which I did. The bad thing is that finding the right option or the actual plugin that is bringing the functionality you don't want takes some time.
  - CGamesPlay 2y ago
    Was the prebuilt configuration worth it in the end then? I recently started a from-scratch config and followed kickstart, which is pretty minimal and also not a plugin/distribution/self-updating thing, it’s just an example config file you can copy.
    - melodyogonna 2y ago
      Yeah. Once you understand the configuration it's really nice, it is also well documented.
  - wyclif 2y ago
    A good option is to start with kickstart.nvim. This allows you to build up from a very basic install, or keep the simple default install without a lot of plugins.

rand0m4r 2y ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the same thing. I also think that "stability" and the "community" are two other things that made me switch back to vim.

CGamesPlay 2y ago

I just set up a Neovim configuration from scratch and I have no idea what you are talking about. I did install a completion plugin literally called blink, but even that supports keybinding activation.

wruza 2y ago
My transition was unsuccessful for a differrent reason, although I still think that while being open to change, it’s ideologically correct to stay with ideas you are aligned with. When I tried it, nvim-qt was hard to associate with file extensions on windows (required something like “-- “filename”” in different shapes and hours of regedit debugging, can’t remember now), then nvim itself had issues with refreshing on manual window resize and with autoresizing the window on setting ‘lines’. And a few more os integration related issues. It was basically unusable gui-wise so I bailed out due to no good reason to stay. I was probably talking about that astro-thing that works like a christmas tree and was the main selling point at the time.

lawn 2y ago

> Neovim turned itself into a pop-blink IDE What does that even mean? Just sounds like a lazy and false argument.

wruza 2y ago
It was a selling point back then and the reason for a fork. Bram didn’t want to add async tech into Vim, cause async enabled various parallel-to-you visual activities. Neovim forked and did async+lua on its own terms. Vim later added async functionality, and I think it was the best outcome. Vimers still got shy LSPs and Neovimers got whatever they dreamed about in their separate emvironment. Good fork. Things may have settled since then, maybe that’s why you think that this phrase looks odd.
- lawn 2y ago
  Async is only a performance detail and using a degorary term as "pop-blink IDE" to refer to the choice to include async is wrong. I've been using Neovim since it forked and it has always offered a Vim-like experience, it's just that Neovim has given you more options. Maybe that's why some think it's too "blinky" as it's possible to turn it into a blinky IDE if you really want to because it's more capable (and some do).
  - wruza 2y ago
    What were these options? Something must have been very special to make a fork and not just a set of plugins. What was it, in terms of end-user features?
    - lawn 2y ago
      The feature I migrated for was async update and installation of plugins, and I used Neovim exactly as I used Vim a long time after that. It's just in recent years I've migrated to Lua and the large amount of Neovim specific plugins (many that heavily depend on async for non-blocking operation of for instance picking or completion).

jitl 2y ago

With no config file Neovim is just vim but with mouse mode enabled by default. With Lua and the new APIs it’s much easier to write powerful plugins that do crazy shit and use animation but none of that happens by default, you need to go out of your way to get that kind of action, same as with regular vim.

sodapopcan 2y ago
It's not, though. A bunch has been stripped out (interactive :!, :view, etc) and time only time will tell how much further they will drift apart.
- kps 2y ago
  And as such neovim has dropped POSIX conformance (including things like `:!` as you mention, that I use regularly) and is apparently not interested in it. I wanted to like neovim for its possibly better lsp integration, but if all I need is an IDE with partial vi emulation, I might as well use VSCode.
- Anthony-G 2y ago
  Thanks for that. I was thinking of trying NeoVim but I regularly use the `:!` feature to filter (selected) text through Unix utilities – and `:view` if I forget to use the `-R` option when opening a file that I don’t want to accidentally edit, e.g., log files.
  - ossusermivami 2y ago
    :! itself has not been stripped from neovim, it's the "interactive" :! that has been stripped (as the OP said) i.e if you do :!bash in vim you enter bash in neovim you won't
    - Anthony-G 2y ago
      Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense and seems like a reasonable change to me.