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Neovim sounded like a good idea, so I switched, too. Then after an update, it broke mouse selection in terminal, by turning on some crazy option by default. I s

by 112233 2y ago

Neovim sounded like a good idea, so I switched, too. Then after an update, it broke mouse selection in terminal, by turning on some crazy option by default. I still have to search how to disable it each time. Ok, things like that happen. Then, after another update, it broke terminal update. Like, your screen scrolls up or down a line and the text does not get redrawn correctly. Is it a wezterm issue? Well, the original vim works flawlessly. So do less, top, and any other terminal programs. Except neovim. No thanks. I dont care how many golden elephants are in the trunk if I cannot drive it.

maleldil 2y ago
Vim is more stable simply because it changes less often. Neovim is constantly improving its APIs, and that can break stuff. If you don't want to deal with breaking changes, just don't update. You can still use most plugins.
- wruza 2y ago
  Breaking changes and mistakes are orthogonal to changes to defaults and changes for no clear reason. This separates stable software from perpetual “nightly” one. With Vim you can update through a couple major versions before even realizing it. For me it usually happens after system crashes (classic reinstall windows twice a decade) and the vim config and my habits just work with a new vim download. If neovim thought that something was broken, it was a very valid reason for a quick change. That’s how changes are made and I think most Vimers respect that. It was a proper community fork, almost a textbook example despite the initial buzz. Everyone got what they needed. But if you refuse to update, it’s a clear signal for ideological mismatch. The usual issue with picking pace, as I see it through years, is that there’s often no clear finish line where you switch to walking again. The pace just stays like that forever and people start to grow tired of changes they were happy about. Will that kill Neovim? I don’t think so. People who migrated to it (opposed to newcomers) were built for a change too and will probably “survive” all that. Is your method of dealing with it valid? In principle I agree, nothing wrong with that either.
- 112233 2y ago
  How do you propose I update my distro (fedora) and just don't update text editor? Are you in a habit of bringing a chroot with known good versions of your tools to every computer you ssh into? Like, I'd really want to have that. May it be I've missed some new thing that allows me to not update?
  - maleldil 2y ago
    Don't install neovim with your system package manager, just like your other development tools. If you rely on a tool where the version makes a big difference, you should be in control of it, not the system package manager. You can build it from the source (which works fine) or use something like Bob [1]. [1]https://github.com/MordechaiHadad/bob https://github.com/MordechaiHadad/bob
  - biorach 2y ago
    /usr/local/bin
linsomniac 2y ago
Fellow wezterm user here, I occasionally have redraw issues with neovim, maybe once a month of heavy use. Whatever happened to ^L to redraw the screen, it seems to no longer work... I've moved away from maintaining my own vimrc, and towards vim distributions, and they all seem to be neovim targeted. First it was LunarVim, and more recently after Lunar stopped being maintained to AstroVim. They have been quite good at batteries included vim, and I'll never go back to vim without LSP.
- arusahni 2y ago
  Do you have your terminfo set up properly? I used to experience bad glitching when working with vertical splits, but it went away once I applied this. https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/lua/config/term.html https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/lua/config/term.html
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    My TERM is set to xterm-256color.
- wruza 2y ago
  Does this imply that Vim has no LSP support? Cause ALE is a Vim-spirited zeroconf-ish LSP bridge for those who don’t know.
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    Base vim does not have LSP built in, AstroVIM is a packaging of a bunch of plugins that includes the LSP plugins and more.
lynndotpy 2y ago
This was my experience. Couldn't get into Vim, and once so got used to Neovim it broke. :( I really love the Helix editor, and haven't had these issues yet, but it's not intended as a 1-1 vim replacement.
kps 2y ago
I've also seen terminal misbehaviour with neovim, not using wezterm, including incredibly slow redraws.
bee_rider 2y ago
Neovim sort of reminds me of zsh, in the sense that I can never really figure out if there’s some underlying technical advantage or if it is just the case that some features people like have been turned on by default.
- robenkleene 2y ago
  Not that I disagree that both Zsh and Neovim turn on some attractive features by default, but the `zle` line editor being more extensible than deadline and built-in support Treesitter/LSP support seem like pretty obvious technical advantages (for the folks the features those enable are attractive to).

by 112233 2y ago

maleldil 2y ago

Vim is more stable simply because it changes less often. Neovim is constantly improving its APIs, and that can break stuff. If you don't want to deal with breaking changes, just don't update. You can still use most plugins.

wruza 2y ago
Breaking changes and mistakes are orthogonal to changes to defaults and changes for no clear reason. This separates stable software from perpetual “nightly” one. With Vim you can update through a couple major versions before even realizing it. For me it usually happens after system crashes (classic reinstall windows twice a decade) and the vim config and my habits just work with a new vim download. If neovim thought that something was broken, it was a very valid reason for a quick change. That’s how changes are made and I think most Vimers respect that. It was a proper community fork, almost a textbook example despite the initial buzz. Everyone got what they needed. But if you refuse to update, it’s a clear signal for ideological mismatch. The usual issue with picking pace, as I see it through years, is that there’s often no clear finish line where you switch to walking again. The pace just stays like that forever and people start to grow tired of changes they were happy about. Will that kill Neovim? I don’t think so. People who migrated to it (opposed to newcomers) were built for a change too and will probably “survive” all that. Is your method of dealing with it valid? In principle I agree, nothing wrong with that either.
112233 2y ago
How do you propose I update my distro (fedora) and just don't update text editor? Are you in a habit of bringing a chroot with known good versions of your tools to every computer you ssh into? Like, I'd really want to have that. May it be I've missed some new thing that allows me to not update?
- maleldil 2y ago
  Don't install neovim with your system package manager, just like your other development tools. If you rely on a tool where the version makes a big difference, you should be in control of it, not the system package manager. You can build it from the source (which works fine) or use something like Bob [1]. [1]https://github.com/MordechaiHadad/bob https://github.com/MordechaiHadad/bob
- biorach 2y ago
  /usr/local/bin

linsomniac 2y ago

Fellow wezterm user here, I occasionally have redraw issues with neovim, maybe once a month of heavy use. Whatever happened to ^L to redraw the screen, it seems to no longer work... I've moved away from maintaining my own vimrc, and towards vim distributions, and they all seem to be neovim targeted. First it was LunarVim, and more recently after Lunar stopped being maintained to AstroVim. They have been quite good at batteries included vim, and I'll never go back to vim without LSP.

arusahni 2y ago
Do you have your terminfo set up properly? I used to experience bad glitching when working with vertical splits, but it went away once I applied this. https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/lua/config/term.html https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/lua/config/term.html
- linsomniac 2y ago
  My TERM is set to xterm-256color.
wruza 2y ago
Does this imply that Vim has no LSP support? Cause ALE is a Vim-spirited zeroconf-ish LSP bridge for those who don’t know.
- linsomniac 2y ago
  Base vim does not have LSP built in, AstroVIM is a packaging of a bunch of plugins that includes the LSP plugins and more.

lynndotpy 2y ago

This was my experience. Couldn't get into Vim, and once so got used to Neovim it broke. :( I really love the Helix editor, and haven't had these issues yet, but it's not intended as a 1-1 vim replacement.

kps 2y ago

I've also seen terminal misbehaviour with neovim, not using wezterm, including incredibly slow redraws.

bee_rider 2y ago

Neovim sort of reminds me of zsh, in the sense that I can never really figure out if there’s some underlying technical advantage or if it is just the case that some features people like have been turned on by default.

robenkleene 2y ago
Not that I disagree that both Zsh and Neovim turn on some attractive features by default, but the `zle` line editor being more extensible than deadline and built-in support Treesitter/LSP support seem like pretty obvious technical advantages (for the folks the features those enable are attractive to).