5 ms·

I remember when Hinton said that that we should "stop training radiologists now" in 2016[1]. Meanwhile, radiologists are in high demand and are getting paid bet

I remember when Hinton said that that we should "stop training radiologists now" in 2016[1]. Meanwhile, radiologists are in high demand and are getting paid better than ever. I believe the same will be true for programmers in the future. Sure, some of the boilerplate will be handled for you, just like segmentation is for radiologists. That's great for everyone. 1 = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMPRXstSvQ&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMPRXstSvQ&t=30s

TheDudeMan 2y ago
Did the radiologists suddenly get better than the AI at reading images? Or is the system simply unchangeable?
- carbocation 2y ago
  A few responses: - Since when have the radiologists ever been worse than AI at reading images? - AI is doing mechanical tasks for the radiologists, so it stands to reason that this makes radiologist more efficient. - The radiologist is a liability sponge, so if at all possible it of course makes sense to augment the radiologist with AI rather than to try to do away with them. (This roughly gets at your point about the system being unchangeable.)
  - aiiizzz 2y ago
    > Since when have the radiologists ever been worse than AI at reading images? Since 2 years~ish?
    - carbocation 2y ago
      For segmentation? Sure. For their role as a clinical consultant? Not yet.
avidphantasm 2y ago
The notion of no longer training radiologists because computer vision algorithms and deep learning are good at detecting cancers in imagery strikes me troublingly naïve. Who fucking trained the AIs? Will the AIs magically be able to detect yet to be discovered maladies?
- dboreham 2y ago
  Fwiw this is not new. I worked on a machine vision project to evaluate x-rays for cancer...in 1985.
cameldrv 2y ago
A radiologist is training for a 35-40 year career though. I definitely would not have wanted to have started that training in 2016.
aitchnyu 2y ago
Optimistic me waiting for all clinics to have one-home worth MRIs which can be placed between steel racks and plugged into a socket. Now every doc will need to become a radiologist. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240510/Machine-learning-enables-cheaper-and-safer-low-power-MRI.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240510/Machine-learning-...

TheDudeMan 2y ago

Did the radiologists suddenly get better than the AI at reading images? Or is the system simply unchangeable?

carbocation 2y ago
A few responses: - Since when have the radiologists ever been worse than AI at reading images? - AI is doing mechanical tasks for the radiologists, so it stands to reason that this makes radiologist more efficient. - The radiologist is a liability sponge, so if at all possible it of course makes sense to augment the radiologist with AI rather than to try to do away with them. (This roughly gets at your point about the system being unchangeable.)
- aiiizzz 2y ago
  > Since when have the radiologists ever been worse than AI at reading images? Since 2 years~ish?
  - carbocation 2y ago
    For segmentation? Sure. For their role as a clinical consultant? Not yet.

avidphantasm 2y ago

The notion of no longer training radiologists because computer vision algorithms and deep learning are good at detecting cancers in imagery strikes me troublingly naïve. Who fucking trained the AIs? Will the AIs magically be able to detect yet to be discovered maladies?

dboreham 2y ago
Fwiw this is not new. I worked on a machine vision project to evaluate x-rays for cancer...in 1985.

cameldrv 2y ago

A radiologist is training for a 35-40 year career though. I definitely would not have wanted to have started that training in 2016.

aitchnyu 2y ago

Optimistic me waiting for all clinics to have one-home worth MRIs which can be placed between steel racks and plugged into a socket. Now every doc will need to become a radiologist. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240510/Machine-learning-enables-cheaper-and-safer-low-power-MRI.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240510/Machine-learning-...