6 ms·

What always goes through my mind when I imagine buying one of these is, "my laptop battery died after two years". How do I know the same thing won't happen wit

What always goes through my mind when I imagine buying one of these is, "my laptop battery died after two years". How do I know the same thing won't happen with this car? If not two years, what happens to this car in 5 years, 10 years? Is there any guarantee this car will be drivable in 10 years? Is there even a process for replacing the battery? What would it cost?

bdfh42 14y ago
I don't know the specifics of this model but most electric cars on the market come with a lease agreement for the batteries - you don't get to own them. I also understand that the batteries need swapping in a lot less than 10 years.
smackfu 14y ago
Most cars only have a 5-year powertrain warranty anyways.
- bdfh42 14y ago
  But there is a huge difference between the length of a warranty and one's reasonable expectation of a functional lifetime. My last car only came with a 4 year warranty (now expired) but I bet it is still driving just fine in another 10 years.
- Peroni 14y ago
  Your powertrain won't cost $40k to replace unlike Tesla batteries.
  - smackfu 14y ago
    OTOH, replacing an engine does usually cost a good 70% of the value of the car, with labor and all.
    - Peroni 14y ago
      Agreed however it's significantly more difficult to render a complete engine a write-off and most of the component parts can be individually replaced. Not so with Tesla.
ghostfish 14y ago
There is an 8 year warranty on the battery in a Model S, with mileage depending on which capacity version you own.
- tocomment 14y ago
  Oh that's a start. It's still hard to swallow that a 50K+ car will be worthless in 8 years.
  - jguimont 14y ago
    People don't seem to remember that Tesla's car won't be consuming any gas for that 8 year period and that the only (almost) maintenance cost is changing the tires/breaks once in a while. Also the average ownership length [1] is less than 5 years. Take all into consideration and a base Model S at 50k is closer to a 25-30k car. Combine all the "not spent" gas and maintenance cost and you can very well afford a new battery 8 years down the road. [1] http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of-us-vehicle-ownership-hit-an-all_time-high/ http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of...
    - bdfh42 14y ago
      A lot of the "gas" you wont be spending money on would be because the range is pretty small. Next weekend I will be hopping into a car that has sat outside the house doing nothing for a month or so and drive it 1,000 km to the South West of France. I will stop briefly on the way to fill up with fuel (10 minutes?). It will be dark for quite a lot of the time and the car will have the headlights on. Oh - it might even rain so the wipers might be needed. The journey should take about 12 hours including the section where we cross the English channel. A couple of weeks later I will do the reverse journey. No fuss at all. How many days would it take to do the same journey in an electric car?
      - jguimont 14y ago
        That's a whole different discussion/argument by itself. For most transportation 400km is plenty. That's a week of transport for my family and me.
Peroni 14y ago
The tesla battery costs approximately $40k to purchase and replace. There was widespread coverage of Tesla Roadsters being 'bricked'. Essentially more than a few Roadster owners reported that if the car was left sitting idle for more than a month or so it was rendered useless as the battery requires a constant trickle feed of electricity if parked up over a long period of time. It was discussed at length here on HN too: http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-te... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946
- jsvaughan 14y ago
  This is just FUD. This is nothing to do with Tesla, and just the case with most battery chemistries. Even if the article is true, it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars and it would be solved by a £15 solar charger. More relevant comments on slashdot http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesla-cars-arent-bricked-by-failing-batteries http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesl...
  - Peroni 14y ago
    ...it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars In the automotive industry, 0.2% is a huge figure for concern. The comment you linked is in itself factually incorrect. Firstly, when a Tesla battery dies, towing isn't even an option. The vehicle has to be completely lifted from it's spot and placed on a truck as the wheels can't be released on a dead Tesla. Secondly, it misses the semantics of the claim. It's not about battery failure, it's about how the battery itself discharges over a prolonged period of time as Teslas, even whilst switched off and completely stationary, require a minor amount of power which progressively drains the cells. After a period of time, the cells are entirely depleted and the structure of the Tesla battery means they can't be recharged and require replacing entirely. It's been acknowledged that it's a fundamental flaw in the Tesla powerpack that has not yet been resolved.
    - majorlazer 14y ago

bdfh42 14y ago

I don't know the specifics of this model but most electric cars on the market come with a lease agreement for the batteries - you don't get to own them. I also understand that the batteries need swapping in a lot less than 10 years.

smackfu 14y ago

Most cars only have a 5-year powertrain warranty anyways.

bdfh42 14y ago
But there is a huge difference between the length of a warranty and one's reasonable expectation of a functional lifetime. My last car only came with a 4 year warranty (now expired) but I bet it is still driving just fine in another 10 years.
Peroni 14y ago
Your powertrain won't cost $40k to replace unlike Tesla batteries.
- smackfu 14y ago
  OTOH, replacing an engine does usually cost a good 70% of the value of the car, with labor and all.
  - Peroni 14y ago
    Agreed however it's significantly more difficult to render a complete engine a write-off and most of the component parts can be individually replaced. Not so with Tesla.

ghostfish 14y ago

There is an 8 year warranty on the battery in a Model S, with mileage depending on which capacity version you own.

tocomment 14y ago
Oh that's a start. It's still hard to swallow that a 50K+ car will be worthless in 8 years.
- jguimont 14y ago
  People don't seem to remember that Tesla's car won't be consuming any gas for that 8 year period and that the only (almost) maintenance cost is changing the tires/breaks once in a while. Also the average ownership length [1] is less than 5 years. Take all into consideration and a base Model S at 50k is closer to a 25-30k car. Combine all the "not spent" gas and maintenance cost and you can very well afford a new battery 8 years down the road. [1] http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of-us-vehicle-ownership-hit-an-all_time-high/ http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of...
  - bdfh42 14y ago
    A lot of the "gas" you wont be spending money on would be because the range is pretty small. Next weekend I will be hopping into a car that has sat outside the house doing nothing for a month or so and drive it 1,000 km to the South West of France. I will stop briefly on the way to fill up with fuel (10 minutes?). It will be dark for quite a lot of the time and the car will have the headlights on. Oh - it might even rain so the wipers might be needed. The journey should take about 12 hours including the section where we cross the English channel. A couple of weeks later I will do the reverse journey. No fuss at all. How many days would it take to do the same journey in an electric car?
    - jguimont 14y ago
      That's a whole different discussion/argument by itself. For most transportation 400km is plenty. That's a week of transport for my family and me.

Peroni 14y ago

The tesla battery costs approximately $40k to purchase and replace. There was widespread coverage of Tesla Roadsters being 'bricked'. Essentially more than a few Roadster owners reported that if the car was left sitting idle for more than a month or so it was rendered useless as the battery requires a constant trickle feed of electricity if parked up over a long period of time. It was discussed at length here on HN too: http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-te... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946

jsvaughan 14y ago
This is just FUD. This is nothing to do with Tesla, and just the case with most battery chemistries. Even if the article is true, it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars and it would be solved by a £15 solar charger. More relevant comments on slashdot http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesla-cars-arent-bricked-by-failing-batteries http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesl...
- Peroni 14y ago
  ...it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars In the automotive industry, 0.2% is a huge figure for concern. The comment you linked is in itself factually incorrect. Firstly, when a Tesla battery dies, towing isn't even an option. The vehicle has to be completely lifted from it's spot and placed on a truck as the wheels can't be released on a dead Tesla. Secondly, it misses the semantics of the claim. It's not about battery failure, it's about how the battery itself discharges over a prolonged period of time as Teslas, even whilst switched off and completely stationary, require a minor amount of power which progressively drains the cells. After a period of time, the cells are entirely depleted and the structure of the Tesla battery means they can't be recharged and require replacing entirely. It's been acknowledged that it's a fundamental flaw in the Tesla powerpack that has not yet been resolved.
  - majorlazer 14y ago