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> We’re collaborating with companies like DoorDash, Instacart, OpenTable, Priceline, StubHub, Thumbtack, Uber, and others to ensure Operator addresses real-worl

by dougb5 2y ago

> We’re collaborating with companies like DoorDash, Instacart, OpenTable, Priceline, StubHub, Thumbtack, Uber, and others to ensure Operator addresses real-world needs while respecting established norms. Are these tasks really complex enough for people that they are itching to relegate the remaining scrap of required labor to a machine? I always feel like I'm missing something when companies hold up restaurant reservations (etc.) as use-cases for agents. The marginal gain vs. just going to the site/app feels tiny. (Granted, it could be an important accessibility win for some users.)

xnx 2y ago
Agree. Most of my imagined use cases involve scraping a nerfed website (e.g. zillow) for data that I can put in a spreadsheet easier use.
null0pointer 2y ago
If they are already collaborating with these companies then why not just have them agree to allow access to their APIs and avoid all the wasteful AI agent middleware shit?
recursivecaveat 2y ago
> We’re collaborating with companies like DoorDash, Instacart, OpenTable, Priceline, StubHub, Thumbtack, Uber, and others to ensure Operator addresses real-world needs while respecting established norms. I feel like people keep trying to push voice/chat interfaces for things that just flat out suck for voice? The #1 think I look for on a doordash page is a picture of the food. The #1 thing on a stubhub page? The seat map of course. Even things that are less visual like a flight booking, not only is it something that is uncommon and expensive so I don't want to fiddle with some potentially buggy overlay, I can scan a big list of times and numbers like 100X faster than an AI can tediously read them out to me. It only works if I can literally blindly trust that it got the best result result 100%, which is not something I think even a dedicated human assistant could achieve all the time.
- Yizahi 2y ago
  It seems to be a USA bias thing. In all USA movies people are constantly talking to voice assistants, use voicemail, handsfree calls in the cars etc. Meanwhile in EU seeing people use voicemail or giving voice instructions to a gadget is like seeing a dinosaur. I've personally tried using voice to input address in the google nav, and it never understands me, so I've abandoned the whole idea.
Yizahi 2y ago
Also, regarding ordering food or transport (often needed to get somewhere at specific time with small error margin). Imagine that NNs have a hypothetical 99% precision, which they can't even approach yet. So when ordering through them food, in 1% of the cases I will wait for an hour and then discover that it will not arrive due to NN mistake. Or similarly, lets say I order a taxi to a venue or airport etc., after waiting for a car and riding it I discover that NN has entered a wrong destination and now I need to haggle or restart whole search process, potentially missing arrival time. And other examples.
noch 2y ago
> Are these tasks really complex enough for people that they are itching to relegate the remaining scrap of required labor to a machine? I think I sympathize with your feeling but I don't agree with the premise of the question. Do you have or have you ever had a human personal assistant or secretary? An effective human personal assistant can feel like a gift from God. Suddenly a lot of the things that prevent you from concentrating on what you absolutely must focus on, especially if you have a busy life, are magically sorted out. The person knows what you need and knows when you need it and gets it for you; they understand what you ask for and guess what you forgot to ask for. Things you needed organized become organized while you work after giving minimal instructions. Life just gets so much better! When I imagine that machines might be able to become good or effective personal assistants for everyone … If this stuff ever works well it will be a huge life upgrade for everyone. Imagine always having someone who can help you, ready to help you. My father would call the secretary pool to send someone to his office. My kids will probably just speak and powerful machines will show up to help.
- dougb5 2y ago
  I've never had a human personal assistant. I don't have a sufficiently "busy life", at least in the conventional sense. I appreciate that personal assistants can be useful for other people. And I'm not knocking the idea of agents. I can certainly imagine other tasks ("research wedding planners", "organize my tax info", "find the best local doctor", "scrape all the bike accident info in all the towns in my county") where they could be a benefit. It's the focus on these itty bitty consumer tasks I don't get. Even if I did have a personal assistant, I still can't imagine I'd ask them to make a reservation for me on OpenTable, or find tickets for me on Stubhub. I mean, these apps already kind of function like assistants, don't they?, even without any AI fanciness. All I do is tell them what I want and press a few buttons, and there's a precise interface for doing so that is tailored to the task in each case; the UX has been hyper-optimized over time by market forces to be fast and convenient to me so that they can take my money. Using them is hardly any slower than asking another person to do the task for me.

by dougb5 2y ago

> We’re collaborating with companies like DoorDash, Instacart, OpenTable, Priceline, StubHub, Thumbtack, Uber, and others to ensure Operator addresses real-world needs while respecting established norms. Are these tasks really complex enough for people that they are itching to relegate the remaining scrap of required labor to a machine? I always feel like I'm missing something when companies hold up restaurant reservations (etc.) as use-cases for agents. The marginal gain vs. just going to the site/app feels tiny. (Granted, it could be an important accessibility win for some users.)

xnx 2y ago

Agree. Most of my imagined use cases involve scraping a nerfed website (e.g. zillow) for data that I can put in a spreadsheet easier use.

null0pointer 2y ago

If they are already collaborating with these companies then why not just have them agree to allow access to their APIs and avoid all the wasteful AI agent middleware shit?

recursivecaveat 2y ago

> We’re collaborating with companies like DoorDash, Instacart, OpenTable, Priceline, StubHub, Thumbtack, Uber, and others to ensure Operator addresses real-world needs while respecting established norms. I feel like people keep trying to push voice/chat interfaces for things that just flat out suck for voice? The #1 think I look for on a doordash page is a picture of the food. The #1 thing on a stubhub page? The seat map of course. Even things that are less visual like a flight booking, not only is it something that is uncommon and expensive so I don't want to fiddle with some potentially buggy overlay, I can scan a big list of times and numbers like 100X faster than an AI can tediously read them out to me. It only works if I can literally blindly trust that it got the best result result 100%, which is not something I think even a dedicated human assistant could achieve all the time.

Yizahi 2y ago
It seems to be a USA bias thing. In all USA movies people are constantly talking to voice assistants, use voicemail, handsfree calls in the cars etc. Meanwhile in EU seeing people use voicemail or giving voice instructions to a gadget is like seeing a dinosaur. I've personally tried using voice to input address in the google nav, and it never understands me, so I've abandoned the whole idea.

Yizahi 2y ago

Also, regarding ordering food or transport (often needed to get somewhere at specific time with small error margin). Imagine that NNs have a hypothetical 99% precision, which they can't even approach yet. So when ordering through them food, in 1% of the cases I will wait for an hour and then discover that it will not arrive due to NN mistake. Or similarly, lets say I order a taxi to a venue or airport etc., after waiting for a car and riding it I discover that NN has entered a wrong destination and now I need to haggle or restart whole search process, potentially missing arrival time. And other examples.

noch 2y ago

> Are these tasks really complex enough for people that they are itching to relegate the remaining scrap of required labor to a machine? I think I sympathize with your feeling but I don't agree with the premise of the question. Do you have or have you ever had a human personal assistant or secretary? An effective human personal assistant can feel like a gift from God. Suddenly a lot of the things that prevent you from concentrating on what you absolutely must focus on, especially if you have a busy life, are magically sorted out. The person knows what you need and knows when you need it and gets it for you; they understand what you ask for and guess what you forgot to ask for. Things you needed organized become organized while you work after giving minimal instructions. Life just gets so much better! When I imagine that machines might be able to become good or effective personal assistants for everyone … If this stuff ever works well it will be a huge life upgrade for everyone. Imagine always having someone who can help you, ready to help you. My father would call the secretary pool to send someone to his office. My kids will probably just speak and powerful machines will show up to help.

dougb5 2y ago
I've never had a human personal assistant. I don't have a sufficiently "busy life", at least in the conventional sense. I appreciate that personal assistants can be useful for other people. And I'm not knocking the idea of agents. I can certainly imagine other tasks ("research wedding planners", "organize my tax info", "find the best local doctor", "scrape all the bike accident info in all the towns in my county") where they could be a benefit. It's the focus on these itty bitty consumer tasks I don't get. Even if I did have a personal assistant, I still can't imagine I'd ask them to make a reservation for me on OpenTable, or find tickets for me on Stubhub. I mean, these apps already kind of function like assistants, don't they?, even without any AI fanciness. All I do is tell them what I want and press a few buttons, and there's a precise interface for doing so that is tailored to the task in each case; the UX has been hyper-optimized over time by market forces to be fast and convenient to me so that they can take my money. Using them is hardly any slower than asking another person to do the task for me.