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As the storyline unfolds "AI" seems to be code for "machine learning based censorship". Soon we will have home appliances and vehicles telling you about how al

As the storyline unfolds "AI" seems to be code for "machine learning based censorship". Soon we will have home appliances and vehicles telling you about how aligned you are, and whether you need to improve your alignment score before you can open your fridge. It is only a matter of time before this will apply to your financial transactions as well.

mattstir 2y ago
I can sympathize with vague notions of AI dystopia, but this might be stretching the concept a bit too far. This kind of service is extremely abusable ("Operator, go to Wikipedia and start mass-vandalizing articles" or "Go to this website and try these people's email addresses with random passwords until it locks their accounts") and building some alignment goals into it doesn't seem like a terribly draconian idea. Also, if you were under the impression that machine-learned (or otherwise) restrictions aren't already applied to purchases made with your cards, you're in for an unfortunate bit of news there as well.
- darioush 2y ago
  You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. Except it's not python's responsibility to interpret the intent of your script, just as it's not your phone's responsibility to interpret the contents of your conversation. So our tools are not our morality police. We have a legal system that can operate within the bounds of law and due process. I am well aware of the already applied levels of machine learning policing, I am just not very excited that society has decided that "this is the way now", and also doesn't seem to be bothered by the environmental costs of building and running all these GPUs (which does seem to be the case when they are used for censorship resistant transactions), or the ethical concerns about a non-profit becoming a for-profit etc.
  - infecto 2y ago
    The difference being you would be running that python script yourself. If you by chance hosted it somewhere there is high probability that the host would get a notice and shut you down. I honestly don't see much difference here. There will be multiple providers and perhaps great ways to run these types of tools locally, all have different risk measures.
  - Matl 2y ago
    > You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. First of all, I agree with you generally and am uneasy about this too. But there's a difference in that someone could say 'hey, this attack on my website happened from OpenAI's infra', whereas that would not apply to Python because it's not a hosted service.
  - panarky 2y ago
    Even though you have the power to ignore stop signs when you're driving your own car, it's not an unreasonable restriction of your liberty when AI-driven cars stop at stop signs.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    > You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. This argument is slightly disingenuous as it requires much higher skill, so it acts as a protective barrier. A person who have never programmed in their life could easily instruct this service to do all sorts of damaging things. (I suppose your counterargument will be that people can ask an LLM to write Python code to do the same. Still, most would struggle to run the Python code.)
    - kridsdale3 2y ago
      Kids. Kids are the non-aligned users who will use this to wreak havoc. And they will think it's hillarious.
- gloosx 2y ago
  I don't think webmasters will be sitting down and hoping that this will not be abusable. Unlikely these kinds of agents would be allowed at all for producing content of any kind automatically (e.g. not via their APIs), or ai-slop will just overwhelm the internet exponentially. The same neural networks are ready for detecting certain fingerprints and denying them entrance
  - grahamj 2y ago
    I dunno, I’m sure sure who I’d bet on in a race of ML website use vs. ML trying to detect ML website use.
93po 2y ago
drink verification can
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
<< whether you need to improve your alignment score before you can open your fridge. Did you not eat enough already? Come to think of it, do you not think you had enough internet for today Darious? You need to rest so that you can give 110% at <insert employer>. Proper food alignment is very important to a human.
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  Please align pie with pie-hole.
conradev 2y ago
We already have Ignition Interlock Devices which tell you how aligned you are and whether or not you need to improve your alignment score before starting the car. The EU is also making good progress on financial transactions – they're set to ban cash transactions over $10,000 by 2027.
- anticensor 2y ago
  We're way ahead of that in Turkey: our cash limit is ₺10k, which amounts to about €267 (exception: transactions legally requiring notarisation by a notary public).
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > We already have Ignition Interlock Devices which tell you how aligned you are and whether or not you need to improve your alignment score before starting the car. I didn't know about "Ignition Interlock Devices". Wiki tells me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device > breath alcohol ignition interlock device (IID or BAIID) is a breathalyzer for an individual's vehicle. It requires the driver to blow into a mouthpiece on the device before starting or continuing to operate the vehicle. Can you explain your concern about this device? Also: How do you feel about laws that require drivers and passengers to wear a seatbelt? Also: Can you share a legitimate reason why you need to use cash in transactions over 10K EUR?
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    For buying shit. That you don't want some EU person in an office to know you bought. Which should be a fundamental human right.
  - conradev 2y ago
    To buy or sell things that cost more than $10K EUR, like a car or a boat at an auction. The government only needs to be aware of taxable income, not every financial transaction you make. If you purchase a car in cash with post-tax money, it is none of the government's business. The EU talks out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to privacy because on one hand they're all for it, but on the other hand, they'd like a backdoor please. The digital ID standard being implemented is more faithful to these principles: you can generate a proof from your ID that you are 21 without having to give a stranger your home address.
semi-extrinsic 2y ago
What do you mean soon? A friend of mine has a 5 year old Tesla, where you make profiles in the car to store your seat position preferences and other settings. At some point, this guy has done something that he's not sure of, which pissed of some algorithm and banned his profile from using some features. So now he had to make a second profile with a random name so he can drive his car again.

mattstir 2y ago

I can sympathize with vague notions of AI dystopia, but this might be stretching the concept a bit too far. This kind of service is extremely abusable ("Operator, go to Wikipedia and start mass-vandalizing articles" or "Go to this website and try these people's email addresses with random passwords until it locks their accounts") and building some alignment goals into it doesn't seem like a terribly draconian idea. Also, if you were under the impression that machine-learned (or otherwise) restrictions aren't already applied to purchases made with your cards, you're in for an unfortunate bit of news there as well.

darioush 2y ago
You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. Except it's not python's responsibility to interpret the intent of your script, just as it's not your phone's responsibility to interpret the contents of your conversation. So our tools are not our morality police. We have a legal system that can operate within the bounds of law and due process. I am well aware of the already applied levels of machine learning policing, I am just not very excited that society has decided that "this is the way now", and also doesn't seem to be bothered by the environmental costs of building and running all these GPUs (which does seem to be the case when they are used for censorship resistant transactions), or the ethical concerns about a non-profit becoming a for-profit etc.
- infecto 2y ago
  The difference being you would be running that python script yourself. If you by chance hosted it somewhere there is high probability that the host would get a notice and shut you down. I honestly don't see much difference here. There will be multiple providers and perhaps great ways to run these types of tools locally, all have different risk measures.
- Matl 2y ago
  > You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. First of all, I agree with you generally and am uneasy about this too. But there's a difference in that someone could say 'hey, this attack on my website happened from OpenAI's infra', whereas that would not apply to Python because it's not a hosted service.
- panarky 2y ago
  Even though you have the power to ignore stop signs when you're driving your own car, it's not an unreasonable restriction of your liberty when AI-driven cars stop at stop signs.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > You can also write a python script to achieve the same goals. This argument is slightly disingenuous as it requires much higher skill, so it acts as a protective barrier. A person who have never programmed in their life could easily instruct this service to do all sorts of damaging things. (I suppose your counterargument will be that people can ask an LLM to write Python code to do the same. Still, most would struggle to run the Python code.)
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    Kids. Kids are the non-aligned users who will use this to wreak havoc. And they will think it's hillarious.
gloosx 2y ago
I don't think webmasters will be sitting down and hoping that this will not be abusable. Unlikely these kinds of agents would be allowed at all for producing content of any kind automatically (e.g. not via their APIs), or ai-slop will just overwhelm the internet exponentially. The same neural networks are ready for detecting certain fingerprints and denying them entrance
- grahamj 2y ago
  I dunno, I’m sure sure who I’d bet on in a race of ML website use vs. ML trying to detect ML website use.

93po 2y ago

drink verification can

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago

<< whether you need to improve your alignment score before you can open your fridge. Did you not eat enough already? Come to think of it, do you not think you had enough internet for today Darious? You need to rest so that you can give 110% at <insert employer>. Proper food alignment is very important to a human.

kridsdale3 2y ago
Please align pie with pie-hole.

conradev 2y ago

We already have Ignition Interlock Devices which tell you how aligned you are and whether or not you need to improve your alignment score before starting the car. The EU is also making good progress on financial transactions – they're set to ban cash transactions over $10,000 by 2027.

anticensor 2y ago
We're way ahead of that in Turkey: our cash limit is ₺10k, which amounts to about €267 (exception: transactions legally requiring notarisation by a notary public).
throwaway2037 2y ago
> We already have Ignition Interlock Devices which tell you how aligned you are and whether or not you need to improve your alignment score before starting the car. I didn't know about "Ignition Interlock Devices". Wiki tells me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_interlock_device > breath alcohol ignition interlock device (IID or BAIID) is a breathalyzer for an individual's vehicle. It requires the driver to blow into a mouthpiece on the device before starting or continuing to operate the vehicle. Can you explain your concern about this device? Also: How do you feel about laws that require drivers and passengers to wear a seatbelt? Also: Can you share a legitimate reason why you need to use cash in transactions over 10K EUR?
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  For buying shit. That you don't want some EU person in an office to know you bought. Which should be a fundamental human right.
- conradev 2y ago
  To buy or sell things that cost more than $10K EUR, like a car or a boat at an auction. The government only needs to be aware of taxable income, not every financial transaction you make. If you purchase a car in cash with post-tax money, it is none of the government's business. The EU talks out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to privacy because on one hand they're all for it, but on the other hand, they'd like a backdoor please. The digital ID standard being implemented is more faithful to these principles: you can generate a proof from your ID that you are 21 without having to give a stranger your home address.

semi-extrinsic 2y ago

What do you mean soon? A friend of mine has a 5 year old Tesla, where you make profiles in the car to store your seat position preferences and other settings. At some point, this guy has done something that he's not sure of, which pissed of some algorithm and banned his profile from using some features. So now he had to make a second profile with a random name so he can drive his car again.