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Tesla Model S review: A good first impression

47 points by PaulMcCartney 14y ago

bdfh42 14y ago
A review does not include the words "Turns are accomplished (or so I'm told) with hardly any body lean...". Not a review but a short ride in a $100,000 car - so no surprises that the reporter found some elements nice. Mind even this stage managed puff piece had to end with a reminder that "Tesla faces the mundane challenges of producing the car profitably in relatively high volumes...".
- peeters 14y ago
  Puff piece? Did you read the whole article through a neutral lens? Here are some excerpts you might have missed: > At slow speeds the Model S feels disappointingly like a hefty, battery-laden electric car. With a light foot on the accelerator, it shuffles from stop sign to stop sign with all the eagerness of a fat man asked to change seats on an airliner. You can almost hear it sigh. > Fortunately, for me, the brake pedal works just as well as the accelerator nicely preventing me from rear-ending cars ahead after each startling burst of speed. Even the quote that you took out of context was a begrudging acknowledgement that it was believable that the car would handle well given the low center of gravity, but that he'd have to wait to say for sure.
tocomment 14y ago
What always goes through my mind when I imagine buying one of these is, "my laptop battery died after two years". How do I know the same thing won't happen with this car? If not two years, what happens to this car in 5 years, 10 years? Is there any guarantee this car will be drivable in 10 years? Is there even a process for replacing the battery? What would it cost?
- bdfh42 14y ago
  I don't know the specifics of this model but most electric cars on the market come with a lease agreement for the batteries - you don't get to own them. I also understand that the batteries need swapping in a lot less than 10 years.
- smackfu 14y ago
  Most cars only have a 5-year powertrain warranty anyways.
  - bdfh42 14y ago
    But there is a huge difference between the length of a warranty and one's reasonable expectation of a functional lifetime. My last car only came with a 4 year warranty (now expired) but I bet it is still driving just fine in another 10 years.
  - Peroni 14y ago
    Your powertrain won't cost $40k to replace unlike Tesla batteries.
    - smackfu 14y ago
      OTOH, replacing an engine does usually cost a good 70% of the value of the car, with labor and all.
      - Peroni 14y ago
        Agreed however it's significantly more difficult to render a complete engine a write-off and most of the component parts can be individually replaced. Not so with Tesla.
- ghostfish 14y ago
  There is an 8 year warranty on the battery in a Model S, with mileage depending on which capacity version you own.
  - tocomment 14y ago
    Oh that's a start. It's still hard to swallow that a 50K+ car will be worthless in 8 years.
    - jguimont 14y ago
      People don't seem to remember that Tesla's car won't be consuming any gas for that 8 year period and that the only (almost) maintenance cost is changing the tires/breaks once in a while. Also the average ownership length [1] is less than 5 years. Take all into consideration and a base Model S at 50k is closer to a 25-30k car. Combine all the "not spent" gas and maintenance cost and you can very well afford a new battery 8 years down the road. [1] http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of-us-vehicle-ownership-hit-an-all_time-high/ http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of...
      - bdfh42 14y ago
        A lot of the "gas" you wont be spending money on would be because the range is pretty small. Next weekend I will be hopping into a car that has sat outside the house doing nothing for a month or so and drive it 1,000 km to the South West of France. I will stop briefly on the way to fill up with fuel (10 minutes?). It will be dark for quite a lot of the time and the car will have the headlights on. Oh - it might even rain so the wipers might be needed. The journey should take about 12 hours including the section where we cross the English channel. A couple of weeks later I will do the reverse journey. No fuss at all. How many days would it take to do the same journey in an electric car?
        jguimont 14y ago
        That's a whole different discussion/argument by itself. For most transportation 400km is plenty. That's a week of transport for my family and me.
- Peroni 14y ago
  The tesla battery costs approximately $40k to purchase and replace. There was widespread coverage of Tesla Roadsters being 'bricked'. Essentially more than a few Roadster owners reported that if the car was left sitting idle for more than a month or so it was rendered useless as the battery requires a constant trickle feed of electricity if parked up over a long period of time. It was discussed at length here on HN too: http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-te... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946
  - jsvaughan 14y ago
    This is just FUD. This is nothing to do with Tesla, and just the case with most battery chemistries. Even if the article is true, it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars and it would be solved by a £15 solar charger. More relevant comments on slashdot http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesla-cars-arent-bricked-by-failing-batteries http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesl...
    - Peroni 14y ago
      ...it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars In the automotive industry, 0.2% is a huge figure for concern. The comment you linked is in itself factually incorrect. Firstly, when a Tesla battery dies, towing isn't even an option. The vehicle has to be completely lifted from it's spot and placed on a truck as the wheels can't be released on a dead Tesla. Secondly, it misses the semantics of the claim. It's not about battery failure, it's about how the battery itself discharges over a prolonged period of time as Teslas, even whilst switched off and completely stationary, require a minor amount of power which progressively drains the cells. After a period of time, the cells are entirely depleted and the structure of the Tesla battery means they can't be recharged and require replacing entirely. It's been acknowledged that it's a fundamental flaw in the Tesla powerpack that has not yet been resolved.
      - majorlazer 14y ago
tokenadult 14y ago
An earlier (favorable) review of the Tesla Model S http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/07/06/review-tesla-model-s-electric-sedan/ http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/07/06/review-tesla-mo... also seems to have been based on a rather short test drive. ". . . . The car’s flat, floorpan-mounted battery pack (85 kWh) accounts for about 30% of the significant total vehicle weight, 4,642 pounds. And yet, with a C-of-G comparable to that of a Ford GT supercar, the Tesla corners like it’s tethered with magic. What do you call that? . . . . "Out on the street, suspended with the speed-adaptive air suspension, the Model S has an utterly unshakable, gantry-like vibe to it, even with the big meats in the wheel wells. And yet, given the constraints of our test drive, I can’t really describe the car’s handling. I’ll need at least three months to be sure."
wittekm 14y ago
Gearhead websites like Jalopnik and TTAC have taken Tesla to task for only providing extremely short press junkets to reviewers - assumably so nobody will ever get the thing down to empty and have something bad to say about it in their review. To me it shows a lack of confidence in their own product. I personally hope the best for them, but to this day it remains to be seen if they can actually deliver the 50k Model S to a customer.
- RobAtticus 14y ago
  "but to this day it remains to be seen if they can actually deliver the 50k Model S to a customer" I was under the impression that customers have been receiving the Model S for the last month. Not all reservations have been filled, but they have started filling them.
jonchris 14y ago
Looks ugly like back-fat lady.
majormajor 14y ago
Am I the only one who's not impressed at all by the touchscreen-based interior of the Model S? I can find the button I want to hit/knob I want to twist to adjust the radio or AC by feel in my current car, so I don't have to look at it while driving. Buttons are good! I'd like buttons with little screens on them so that they can always display their function in the current "mode," instead of having to be labeled with multiple things in cases like that, but I'm not seeing the benefit of going full touchscreen. On a phone or tablet it's extra screen space for displaying content—but I don't expect to be browsing the internet or looking at a photo slideshow on the center console of a car.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I predict that touch interfaces in cars like this is a fad that will pass and people will look back on it as an embarrassment. I'm patient, I can wait until Tesla figures it out with their 2nd or 3rd generation sedan.

47 points by PaulMcCartney 14y ago

A review does not include the words "Turns are accomplished (or so I'm told) with hardly any body lean...". Not a review but a short ride in a $100,000 car - so no surprises that the reporter found some elements nice. Mind even this stage managed puff piece had to end with a reminder that "Tesla faces the mundane challenges of producing the car profitably in relatively high volumes...".

peeters 14y ago
Puff piece? Did you read the whole article through a neutral lens? Here are some excerpts you might have missed: > At slow speeds the Model S feels disappointingly like a hefty, battery-laden electric car. With a light foot on the accelerator, it shuffles from stop sign to stop sign with all the eagerness of a fat man asked to change seats on an airliner. You can almost hear it sigh. > Fortunately, for me, the brake pedal works just as well as the accelerator nicely preventing me from rear-ending cars ahead after each startling burst of speed. Even the quote that you took out of context was a begrudging acknowledgement that it was believable that the car would handle well given the low center of gravity, but that he'd have to wait to say for sure.

tocomment 14y ago

What always goes through my mind when I imagine buying one of these is, "my laptop battery died after two years". How do I know the same thing won't happen with this car? If not two years, what happens to this car in 5 years, 10 years? Is there any guarantee this car will be drivable in 10 years? Is there even a process for replacing the battery? What would it cost?

bdfh42 14y ago
I don't know the specifics of this model but most electric cars on the market come with a lease agreement for the batteries - you don't get to own them. I also understand that the batteries need swapping in a lot less than 10 years.
smackfu 14y ago
Most cars only have a 5-year powertrain warranty anyways.
- bdfh42 14y ago
  But there is a huge difference between the length of a warranty and one's reasonable expectation of a functional lifetime. My last car only came with a 4 year warranty (now expired) but I bet it is still driving just fine in another 10 years.
- Peroni 14y ago
  Your powertrain won't cost $40k to replace unlike Tesla batteries.
  - smackfu 14y ago
    OTOH, replacing an engine does usually cost a good 70% of the value of the car, with labor and all.
    - Peroni 14y ago
      Agreed however it's significantly more difficult to render a complete engine a write-off and most of the component parts can be individually replaced. Not so with Tesla.
ghostfish 14y ago
There is an 8 year warranty on the battery in a Model S, with mileage depending on which capacity version you own.
- tocomment 14y ago
  Oh that's a start. It's still hard to swallow that a 50K+ car will be worthless in 8 years.
  - jguimont 14y ago
    People don't seem to remember that Tesla's car won't be consuming any gas for that 8 year period and that the only (almost) maintenance cost is changing the tires/breaks once in a while. Also the average ownership length [1] is less than 5 years. Take all into consideration and a base Model S at 50k is closer to a 25-30k car. Combine all the "not spent" gas and maintenance cost and you can very well afford a new battery 8 years down the road. [1] http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of-us-vehicle-ownership-hit-an-all_time-high/ http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/average-length-of...
    - bdfh42 14y ago
      A lot of the "gas" you wont be spending money on would be because the range is pretty small. Next weekend I will be hopping into a car that has sat outside the house doing nothing for a month or so and drive it 1,000 km to the South West of France. I will stop briefly on the way to fill up with fuel (10 minutes?). It will be dark for quite a lot of the time and the car will have the headlights on. Oh - it might even rain so the wipers might be needed. The journey should take about 12 hours including the section where we cross the English channel. A couple of weeks later I will do the reverse journey. No fuss at all. How many days would it take to do the same journey in an electric car?
      - jguimont 14y ago
        That's a whole different discussion/argument by itself. For most transportation 400km is plenty. That's a week of transport for my family and me.
Peroni 14y ago
The tesla battery costs approximately $40k to purchase and replace. There was widespread coverage of Tesla Roadsters being 'bricked'. Essentially more than a few Roadster owners reported that if the car was left sitting idle for more than a month or so it was rendered useless as the battery requires a constant trickle feed of electricity if parked up over a long period of time. It was discussed at length here on HN too: http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-te... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3618946
- jsvaughan 14y ago
  This is just FUD. This is nothing to do with Tesla, and just the case with most battery chemistries. Even if the article is true, it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars and it would be solved by a £15 solar charger. More relevant comments on slashdot http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesla-cars-arent-bricked-by-failing-batteries http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/02/23/0310255/why-tesl...
  - Peroni 14y ago
    ...it has only happened to 0.2% of Tesla cars In the automotive industry, 0.2% is a huge figure for concern. The comment you linked is in itself factually incorrect. Firstly, when a Tesla battery dies, towing isn't even an option. The vehicle has to be completely lifted from it's spot and placed on a truck as the wheels can't be released on a dead Tesla. Secondly, it misses the semantics of the claim. It's not about battery failure, it's about how the battery itself discharges over a prolonged period of time as Teslas, even whilst switched off and completely stationary, require a minor amount of power which progressively drains the cells. After a period of time, the cells are entirely depleted and the structure of the Tesla battery means they can't be recharged and require replacing entirely. It's been acknowledged that it's a fundamental flaw in the Tesla powerpack that has not yet been resolved.
    - majorlazer 14y ago

tokenadult 14y ago

An earlier (favorable) review of the Tesla Model S http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/07/06/review-tesla-model-s-electric-sedan/ http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/07/06/review-tesla-mo... also seems to have been based on a rather short test drive. ". . . . The car’s flat, floorpan-mounted battery pack (85 kWh) accounts for about 30% of the significant total vehicle weight, 4,642 pounds. And yet, with a C-of-G comparable to that of a Ford GT supercar, the Tesla corners like it’s tethered with magic. What do you call that? . . . . "Out on the street, suspended with the speed-adaptive air suspension, the Model S has an utterly unshakable, gantry-like vibe to it, even with the big meats in the wheel wells. And yet, given the constraints of our test drive, I can’t really describe the car’s handling. I’ll need at least three months to be sure."

wittekm 14y ago

Gearhead websites like Jalopnik and TTAC have taken Tesla to task for only providing extremely short press junkets to reviewers - assumably so nobody will ever get the thing down to empty and have something bad to say about it in their review. To me it shows a lack of confidence in their own product. I personally hope the best for them, but to this day it remains to be seen if they can actually deliver the 50k Model S to a customer.

RobAtticus 14y ago
"but to this day it remains to be seen if they can actually deliver the 50k Model S to a customer" I was under the impression that customers have been receiving the Model S for the last month. Not all reservations have been filled, but they have started filling them.

jonchris 14y ago

Looks ugly like back-fat lady.

majormajor 14y ago

Am I the only one who's not impressed at all by the touchscreen-based interior of the Model S? I can find the button I want to hit/knob I want to twist to adjust the radio or AC by feel in my current car, so I don't have to look at it while driving. Buttons are good! I'd like buttons with little screens on them so that they can always display their function in the current "mode," instead of having to be labeled with multiple things in cases like that, but I'm not seeing the benefit of going full touchscreen. On a phone or tablet it's extra screen space for displaying content—but I don't expect to be browsing the internet or looking at a photo slideshow on the center console of a car.

MartinCron 14y ago
I predict that touch interfaces in cars like this is a fad that will pass and people will look back on it as an embarrassment. I'm patient, I can wait until Tesla figures it out with their 2nd or 3rd generation sedan.