4 ms·

There was a blog post the other day arguing that great developers aren't 10x but infinity-x. It sounds ridiculous, but their point was that great developers don

There was a blog post the other day arguing that great developers aren't 10x but infinity-x. It sounds ridiculous, but their point was that great developers don't simply program faster but solve problems other developers are entirely unable to solve. And that makes sense to me. It's the difference between an AI boot camp graduate and someone with an ML PhD. They might apply a sklearn function at the same speed, but as soon as complex problems appear, the former hits an unsurpassable wall. edit: https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/ https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/

ukuina 2y ago
Do you happen to have a link?
- Matthyze 2y ago
  https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/ https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/
bilekas 2y ago
> It's the difference between an AI boot camp graduate and someone with an ML PhD. They might apply a sklearn function at the same speed, but as soon as complex problems appear, the former hits an unsurpassable wall. I'm sure you're generalizing to make a point but I can assure you this is often not the case, I know several PhD's who have a very hard time dealing with real-world problems that any practical engineer would catch. There is a lot to be said for theory, but there is also a very hard limit.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  > I know several PhD's who have a very hard time dealing with real-world problems that any practical engineer would catch. I don't know the details, but this could exactly be the proof, not the counter-proof. They do different things, but they may not perform ordinary jobs very well. What if we ask John Carmack to play with CSS, move those pixels so the UI looks "perfect"?
  - bilekas 2y ago
    You might be right, point for giving me a good goggle thinking of John Carmack pulling his hair out over CSS :)
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      Yeah would love to see that too...but Casey venting is good enough.
codr7 2y ago
I'd say my most valuable skill is identifying and making problems disappear completely, but it's more a result of having an extensive experience to pull from and pattern match against.
mindcrime 2y ago
OTOH, I've interviewed folks with CS PhD's that literally could not write fizzbuzz. And that's given a head-start with a template program in an IDE, where all they needed to do was flesh out the core algorithm. Not necessarily to disagree with your overall point. But having a PhD is maybe not always as significant as we think it is. Getting a PhD (usually) means extreme specialization in a (possibly highly niche) area, and may well leave someone without a lot of basic skills you might expect them to have.
- Matthyze 2y ago
  Right. My point isn't that doctors are particularly good at programming (they're probably not). I mean that some people have skills, or raw talent, that allow them to do what others simply cannot at all.
  - mindcrime 2y ago
    Fair enough!
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  I don't have a PhD, so I'm hesitant to comment, but I've always had the impression that it was more like grinding in some video game than it was anything truly intellectual. Then at the final boss battle, can you or can you not have ready answers for ridiculous questions.
  - snowfarthing 2y ago
    I recall a psychologist or psychiatrist who challenged the notion of "defiant personality disorder" by observing two things: (1) Many of these "defiant" people merely didn't trust credentials -- they were perfectly fine with authority who earned deference by virtue of proving they really do know what they are doing, and (2) That the psychology/psychiatry profession in general, consisting of people who have their Masters and PhDs, have to "suck up" to a lot of credentialed authority, without question, to get their degrees -- and thus it's only natural for them to expect everyone to unconditionally respect credentials! (For the record, I have a PhD, but it's in pure math, which is possibly simultaniously both the least practical and most practical thing you could possibly learn -- but as such, I'm tangential to engineering and physics -- and I'm pretty sure that all three of these fields have a certain "fine, you have a credential, but can you really walk the walk?" element to them.)
markus_zhang 2y ago
Yeah exactly. I have been very interested in learning all kinds of details from the Archmages, so I gathered as much information as possible. From what I observe, great minds do great things.
snowfarthing 2y ago
Many years ago, when I was learning about pair programming, I remember someone (possibly even Kent Beck) saying that "Pair programming is kryptonite for incompetent introverts!" and I remember thinking, "Well, yeah, but I bet it's the haven of incompetent extroverts!" While I haven't really been in forums debating the merits and perils of paired programming, I cannot help but be amused by this essay, that pretty much confirms this initial thought I had about paired programming!

ukuina 2y ago

Do you happen to have a link?

Matthyze 2y ago
https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/ https://www.seangoedecke.com/weak-engineers/

bilekas 2y ago

> It's the difference between an AI boot camp graduate and someone with an ML PhD. They might apply a sklearn function at the same speed, but as soon as complex problems appear, the former hits an unsurpassable wall. I'm sure you're generalizing to make a point but I can assure you this is often not the case, I know several PhD's who have a very hard time dealing with real-world problems that any practical engineer would catch. There is a lot to be said for theory, but there is also a very hard limit.

markus_zhang 2y ago
> I know several PhD's who have a very hard time dealing with real-world problems that any practical engineer would catch. I don't know the details, but this could exactly be the proof, not the counter-proof. They do different things, but they may not perform ordinary jobs very well. What if we ask John Carmack to play with CSS, move those pixels so the UI looks "perfect"?
- bilekas 2y ago
  You might be right, point for giving me a good goggle thinking of John Carmack pulling his hair out over CSS :)
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    Yeah would love to see that too...but Casey venting is good enough.

codr7 2y ago

I'd say my most valuable skill is identifying and making problems disappear completely, but it's more a result of having an extensive experience to pull from and pattern match against.

mindcrime 2y ago

OTOH, I've interviewed folks with CS PhD's that literally could not write fizzbuzz. And that's given a head-start with a template program in an IDE, where all they needed to do was flesh out the core algorithm. Not necessarily to disagree with your overall point. But having a PhD is maybe not always as significant as we think it is. Getting a PhD (usually) means extreme specialization in a (possibly highly niche) area, and may well leave someone without a lot of basic skills you might expect them to have.

Matthyze 2y ago
Right. My point isn't that doctors are particularly good at programming (they're probably not). I mean that some people have skills, or raw talent, that allow them to do what others simply cannot at all.
- mindcrime 2y ago
  Fair enough!
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
I don't have a PhD, so I'm hesitant to comment, but I've always had the impression that it was more like grinding in some video game than it was anything truly intellectual. Then at the final boss battle, can you or can you not have ready answers for ridiculous questions.
- snowfarthing 2y ago
  I recall a psychologist or psychiatrist who challenged the notion of "defiant personality disorder" by observing two things: (1) Many of these "defiant" people merely didn't trust credentials -- they were perfectly fine with authority who earned deference by virtue of proving they really do know what they are doing, and (2) That the psychology/psychiatry profession in general, consisting of people who have their Masters and PhDs, have to "suck up" to a lot of credentialed authority, without question, to get their degrees -- and thus it's only natural for them to expect everyone to unconditionally respect credentials! (For the record, I have a PhD, but it's in pure math, which is possibly simultaniously both the least practical and most practical thing you could possibly learn -- but as such, I'm tangential to engineering and physics -- and I'm pretty sure that all three of these fields have a certain "fine, you have a credential, but can you really walk the walk?" element to them.)

markus_zhang 2y ago

Yeah exactly. I have been very interested in learning all kinds of details from the Archmages, so I gathered as much information as possible. From what I observe, great minds do great things.

snowfarthing 2y ago

Many years ago, when I was learning about pair programming, I remember someone (possibly even Kent Beck) saying that "Pair programming is kryptonite for incompetent introverts!" and I remember thinking, "Well, yeah, but I bet it's the haven of incompetent extroverts!" While I haven't really been in forums debating the merits and perils of paired programming, I cannot help but be amused by this essay, that pretty much confirms this initial thought I had about paired programming!