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> Number 1 why you need a car connected to the internet all the time To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web AP

> Number 1 why you need a car connected to the internet all the time To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web API), or honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot. > And how you're not required to sign at least 10 forms to confirm you understand that ALL of your travel data will be recorded and distributed at will. Legally speaking, I believe that depends on your local privacy laws. Practically speaking, car makers (and government agencies) love these features for troubleshooting and tech support, or for flagging crashes before any authorities or local press have time to arrive (think Tesla). Don't ask them about finding your stolen car, though. Then the data may suddenly not be available.

bilekas 2y ago
> To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web API), or honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot I really hope this was sarcastic. How did we ever manage to find our cars before IoT cars …
- rtkwe 2y ago
  You can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days.
  - bilekas 2y ago
    These things could certainly be convenient, de-icing while you're having breakfast etc but surely you don't need my location data recorded for those services ? Maybe if there was a list of options I could select from then I guess it's fine.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    I could do that with a key fob well before connected cars were a thing. People just choose to ignore the most basic of information
    - willis936 2y ago
      And car manufacturers are incentivized to remove such valuable and logical features. Enshittification abounds.
      - wildzzz 2y ago
        My Subaru supports remote start if you pay for the upgraded Starlink plan but if you want to do it from the keyfob, you have to buy some module and carry around an extra keyfob solely dedicated to remote start. It's a little ridiculous. They could have easily just made remote start something where you click and hold a button or whatever like any other car with that feature on the fob.
        nkurz 2y ago
        I'm not sure which model you have, but I don't think that's true. I think instead it's that unless you pay for the remote start upgrade (which as you say includes the extra fob) you can't start your car using the normal keyfob. But if you have the upgrade, you can also use the keyfob if you are close enough. At least, that's how it works for our 2018 Outback. I think I've only used the dedicated remote start fob a couple times to test it, but I use the keyfob for remote starting frequently. If you want to try, here are some 3rd party instructions for which buttons to press to make it work: https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outback-with-key-fob-or-mobile-device/ https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outba...
        wildzzz 2y ago
        Thanks, I wasn't entirely sure how it worked. I kept seeing instructions online for which buttons to press to do a remote start from the keyfob but nothing mentioned the required add-ons to make it work. I ended up just paying for the Starlink subscription at least for the cold months. I was hoping my Ascent would do an all windows roll down from the fob like some other cars I've had in the past but looks like it doesn't support that either. I plan to have this car for a long time so I may just invest in the remote start package or a competing product just to have the air running prior to getting in. Black exterior and interior was our only option so I'm not excited about summer.
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    You can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days. Also a solved problem. This one since at least the 1970's. No internet required.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      I'd only really heard of it as an aftermarket feature you had to mod onto the vehicle not as a base part of a package. At least not in the low market range you can get that feature now. Used EVs less than 30k come with that feature now.
    - reginald78 2y ago
      I can't tell sometimes if people are trolling on HN or just young. Many so called great innovations I see are just stuff that was available decades ago but didn't involve ad tech predators. You can tell this stuff isn't that interesting to people otherwise they'd upcharge you for it instead of using it as a pathetic piece of bait for a trap.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
      From five miles away?
beezle 2y ago
Just as an aside - a friend had their car nicked in NYC this winter. He was able to tell the cops the car location from some Toyota find my car type thing. The cops said they saw nothing on the street so unless he could come and make the horn beep infront of a garage - and then get a warrant - there was nothing more to do. He now has a new vehicle.
- bilekas 2y ago
  I'm starting to come around to the idea in general actually with all the comments promoting the benefits. I still don't see why travel locations need to be recorded though. A pining service would suffice if it was always connected.
- theonething 2y ago
  Is your comment supporting the find my car feature or saying it was useless?
  - beezle 2y ago
    The cops could only act if the car was on the street without getting a warrant first and they would not even consider that unless he went to the area in question and made the car do something distinctive enough. We all know that even if the cops would file for the warrant, it would not happen quickly and the car would be chopped and gone long before. So basically, yes this was a useless feature. Perhaps if it happened in a small town/remote area the outcome might have been different. Major city? I doubt the result would be much different than NYC.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  This might say more about the NYPD than Toyota
  - InitialLastName 2y ago
    If I'm a sensible person running a police department, with full knowledge of the here-described bugs and hazards as well as the deep experience all police get in the general "people being jerks" spectrum, it's gonna take a lot more than someone on the phone saying "my car manufacturer's app says the car is in there" to bust down the doors of some random place.
reaperducer 2y ago
honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot. Solved problem since at least the late 1980's. No internet required.

bilekas 2y ago

> To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web API), or honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot I really hope this was sarcastic. How did we ever manage to find our cars before IoT cars …

rtkwe 2y ago
You can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days.
- bilekas 2y ago
  These things could certainly be convenient, de-icing while you're having breakfast etc but surely you don't need my location data recorded for those services ? Maybe if there was a list of options I could select from then I guess it's fine.
- dylan604 2y ago
  I could do that with a key fob well before connected cars were a thing. People just choose to ignore the most basic of information
  - willis936 2y ago
    And car manufacturers are incentivized to remove such valuable and logical features. Enshittification abounds.
    - wildzzz 2y ago
      My Subaru supports remote start if you pay for the upgraded Starlink plan but if you want to do it from the keyfob, you have to buy some module and carry around an extra keyfob solely dedicated to remote start. It's a little ridiculous. They could have easily just made remote start something where you click and hold a button or whatever like any other car with that feature on the fob.
      - nkurz 2y ago
        I'm not sure which model you have, but I don't think that's true. I think instead it's that unless you pay for the remote start upgrade (which as you say includes the extra fob) you can't start your car using the normal keyfob. But if you have the upgrade, you can also use the keyfob if you are close enough. At least, that's how it works for our 2018 Outback. I think I've only used the dedicated remote start fob a couple times to test it, but I use the keyfob for remote starting frequently. If you want to try, here are some 3rd party instructions for which buttons to press to make it work: https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outback-with-key-fob-or-mobile-device/ https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outba...
        wildzzz 2y ago
        Thanks, I wasn't entirely sure how it worked. I kept seeing instructions online for which buttons to press to do a remote start from the keyfob but nothing mentioned the required add-ons to make it work. I ended up just paying for the Starlink subscription at least for the cold months. I was hoping my Ascent would do an all windows roll down from the fob like some other cars I've had in the past but looks like it doesn't support that either. I plan to have this car for a long time so I may just invest in the remote start package or a competing product just to have the air running prior to getting in. Black exterior and interior was our only option so I'm not excited about summer.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  You can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days. Also a solved problem. This one since at least the 1970's. No internet required.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    I'd only really heard of it as an aftermarket feature you had to mod onto the vehicle not as a base part of a package. At least not in the low market range you can get that feature now. Used EVs less than 30k come with that feature now.
  - reginald78 2y ago
    I can't tell sometimes if people are trolling on HN or just young. Many so called great innovations I see are just stuff that was available decades ago but didn't involve ad tech predators. You can tell this stuff isn't that interesting to people otherwise they'd upcharge you for it instead of using it as a pathetic piece of bait for a trap.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
    From five miles away?

beezle 2y ago

Just as an aside - a friend had their car nicked in NYC this winter. He was able to tell the cops the car location from some Toyota find my car type thing. The cops said they saw nothing on the street so unless he could come and make the horn beep infront of a garage - and then get a warrant - there was nothing more to do. He now has a new vehicle.

bilekas 2y ago
I'm starting to come around to the idea in general actually with all the comments promoting the benefits. I still don't see why travel locations need to be recorded though. A pining service would suffice if it was always connected.
theonething 2y ago
Is your comment supporting the find my car feature or saying it was useless?
- beezle 2y ago
  The cops could only act if the car was on the street without getting a warrant first and they would not even consider that unless he went to the area in question and made the car do something distinctive enough. We all know that even if the cops would file for the warrant, it would not happen quickly and the car would be chopped and gone long before. So basically, yes this was a useless feature. Perhaps if it happened in a small town/remote area the outcome might have been different. Major city? I doubt the result would be much different than NYC.
selimthegrim 2y ago
This might say more about the NYPD than Toyota
- InitialLastName 2y ago
  If I'm a sensible person running a police department, with full knowledge of the here-described bugs and hazards as well as the deep experience all police get in the general "people being jerks" spectrum, it's gonna take a lot more than someone on the phone saying "my car manufacturer's app says the car is in there" to bust down the doors of some random place.

reaperducer 2y ago

honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot. Solved problem since at least the late 1980's. No internet required.