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> I didn’t realize this data was being collected, but it seemed that we had agreed to the STARLINK enrollment when we purchased it. This is mind blowing to me
by bilekas 2y ago
> I didn’t realize this data was being collected, but it seemed that we had agreed to the STARLINK enrollment when we purchased it.
This is mind blowing to me.. Number 1 why you need a car connected to the internet all the time ? And how you're not required to sign at least 10 forms to confirm you understand that ALL of your travel data will be recorded and distributed at will.
- jeroenhd 2y ago> Number 1 why you need a car connected to the internet all the time To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web API), or honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot. > And how you're not required to sign at least 10 forms to confirm you understand that ALL of your travel data will be recorded and distributed at will. Legally speaking, I believe that depends on your local privacy laws. Practically speaking, car makers (and government agencies) love these features for troubleshooting and tech support, or for flagging crashes before any authorities or local press have time to arrive (think Tesla). Don't ask them about finding your stolen car, though. Then the data may suddenly not be available.
- bilekas 2y ago> To open the car with an app (programming against Bluetooth is harder than calling a web API), or honk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot I really hope this was sarcastic. How did we ever manage to find our cars before IoT cars …
- rtkwe 2y agoYou can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days.
- bilekas 2y agoThese things could certainly be convenient, de-icing while you're having breakfast etc but surely you don't need my location data recorded for those services ? Maybe if there was a list of options I could select from then I guess it's fine.
- dylan604 2y agoI could do that with a key fob well before connected cars were a thing. People just choose to ignore the most basic of information
- willis936 2y agoAnd car manufacturers are incentivized to remove such valuable and logical features. Enshittification abounds.
- wildzzz 2y agoMy Subaru supports remote start if you pay for the upgraded Starlink plan but if you want to do it from the keyfob, you have to buy some module and carry around an extra keyfob solely dedicated to remote start. It's a little ridiculous. They could have easily just made remote start something where you click and hold a button or whatever like any other car with that feature on the fob.
- nkurz 2y agoI'm not sure which model you have, but I don't think that's true. I think instead it's that unless you pay for the remote start upgrade (which as you say includes the extra fob) you can't start your car using the normal keyfob. But if you have the upgrade, you can also use the keyfob if you are close enough. At least, that's how it works for our 2018 Outback. I think I've only used the dedicated remote start fob a couple times to test it, but I use the keyfob for remote starting frequently. If you want to try, here are some 3rd party instructions for which buttons to press to make it work: https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outback-with-key-fob-or-mobile-device/ https://www.wheelsjoint.com/how-to-remote-start-subaru-outba...
- wildzzz 2y agoThanks, I wasn't entirely sure how it worked. I kept seeing instructions online for which buttons to press to do a remote start from the keyfob but nothing mentioned the required add-ons to make it work. I ended up just paying for the Starlink subscription at least for the cold months. I was hoping my Ascent would do an all windows roll down from the fob like some other cars I've had in the past but looks like it doesn't support that either. I plan to have this car for a long time so I may just invest in the remote start package or a competing product just to have the air running prior to getting in. Black exterior and interior was our only option so I'm not excited about summer.
- reaperducer 2y agoYou can also do other stuff like start the climate controls so the car is comfortable before you reach it on hot or cold days. Also a solved problem. This one since at least the 1970's. No internet required.
- rtkwe 2y agoI'd only really heard of it as an aftermarket feature you had to mod onto the vehicle not as a base part of a package. At least not in the low market range you can get that feature now. Used EVs less than 30k come with that feature now.
- reginald78 2y agoI can't tell sometimes if people are trolling on HN or just young. Many so called great innovations I see are just stuff that was available decades ago but didn't involve ad tech predators. You can tell this stuff isn't that interesting to people otherwise they'd upcharge you for it instead of using it as a pathetic piece of bait for a trap.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y agoFrom five miles away?
- beezle 2y agoJust as an aside - a friend had their car nicked in NYC this winter. He was able to tell the cops the car location from some Toyota find my car type thing. The cops said they saw nothing on the street so unless he could come and make the horn beep infront of a garage - and then get a warrant - there was nothing more to do. He now has a new vehicle.
- bilekas 2y agoI'm starting to come around to the idea in general actually with all the comments promoting the benefits. I still don't see why travel locations need to be recorded though. A pining service would suffice if it was always connected.
- theonething 2y agoIs your comment supporting the find my car feature or saying it was useless?
- beezle 2y agoThe cops could only act if the car was on the street without getting a warrant first and they would not even consider that unless he went to the area in question and made the car do something distinctive enough. We all know that even if the cops would file for the warrant, it would not happen quickly and the car would be chopped and gone long before. So basically, yes this was a useless feature. Perhaps if it happened in a small town/remote area the outcome might have been different. Major city? I doubt the result would be much different than NYC.
- selimthegrim 2y agoThis might say more about the NYPD than Toyota
- InitialLastName 2y agoIf I'm a sensible person running a police department, with full knowledge of the here-described bugs and hazards as well as the deep experience all police get in the general "people being jerks" spectrum, it's gonna take a lot more than someone on the phone saying "my car manufacturer's app says the car is in there" to bust down the doors of some random place.
- reaperducer 2y agohonk the horn if you lost it in a large parking lot. Solved problem since at least the late 1980's. No internet required.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoRemote start, climate etc from the app all require and always on connection (how else?). Tesla has the same thing. I use the remote app often - quite useful.
- dylan604 2y agoRemote start does not require an app nor an always on connection. I was able to do this with a key fob in the early 00s
- redwall_hp 2y agoNeither does climate control. If I remote start my Civic with its fob, it will heat or cool to the desired temperature I left it on. (And it will run the defroster if it's below a certain temperature outside.) Having to think about the climate control is an anti-feature in itself, when that's a basic thermostat feature...
- insane_dreamer 2y agoI know how key fobs work, thank you. I mean the ability to control the car remotely without line of sight or being anywhere near it, such as turning on the climate to warm up the car while still in a building so it's not freezing cold when we get back to the car with the kids, or while the car is in the garage, locking the car remotely because you're blocks away and aren't 100% sure you locked it before you left, opening the windows slightly so the car doesn't overheat in hot weather (Subaru doesn't do this unfortunately, but the Tesla does). The one thing it doesn't do which I wish it did, is roll up the windows remotely.
- dv_dt 2y agoThere was a recent HN posting on the US banning Chinese car brands from being connected to the internet. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42706212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42706212 If Chinese companies comply with the ban by providing car models without internet connectivity, it's hilarious to me that that the nationalist regulation could make Chinese branded vehicles more desirable from a security & privacy standpoint.
- reaperman 2y agoThe current 100% tariff on Chinese EV’s will negate that advantage for American consumers.
- jmward01 2y agoIn the short term. In the medium term it just means that when they finally do break in they will demolish the incumbent. This is exactly what happened with the US auto industry in the 80. Protecting an industry with tariffs and legislation often makes that industry lazy and slow to innovate and eventually just kills it because they have forgotten how to compete.
- jajko 2y agoEurope doesn't have that high tariffs on them, neither does rest of the world. Chinese manufacturers will continue their global meteoric rise whether they are successful in US or not, its just 4% of population even if wealthy. And if they actually do provide better cars (more secure and respecting privacy while massively cheaper), who am I to complain.
- n_plus_1_acc 2y agoEuropean eCall directive requires a sim card
- devinegan 2y agoBecause it has an SOS feature.
- afh1 2y agoAll cars in Europe must be connected to the internet at all times by law, to determine their location, in case of an accident the law states. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... In the US a bill was passed requiring driver impairment equipment on all vehicles and automatic deactivation of the vehicle if the driver is determined to be impaired. Current impairment technology monitors head and eye movement and/or blood or breath. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-402773429497 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-402773429497
- Angostura 2y agoThat's a bizarre interpretation of 'cars in Europe must have a system to automnatically call emergency services when they crash/their airbags deploy'
- iforgot22 2y agoIn general, a lot of things in cars are for the law rather than the owner. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just is what it is. Emissions is the biggest one.
- hulium 2y ago> All cars in Europe must be connected to the internet at all times by law, to determine their location The source you link very explicitly contradicts that: > Your eCall system is only activated if your vehicle is involved in a serious accident. The rest of the time the system remains inactive. This means that when you are simply driving your vehicle, no tracking (registering your car's position or monitoring your driving) or transmission of data takes place.
- KomoD 2y ago(Also not in Europe but in the EU, there's a difference)
- NooneAtAll3 2y agohow does it determine "serious accident"?