4 ms·

I really hate this style of headline (which is not from the original article apparently). It should go in the garbage bin along with "fastest growing" and other

I really hate this style of headline (which is not from the original article apparently). It should go in the garbage bin along with "fastest growing" and others. By itself it doesn't tell you any meaningful information. Maybe "young men" are spending just a few percent more of their time alone than the next group. Maybe that other group started spending less time alone. The actual "problem" is that time spent alone has drastically increased, not that they surpassed some other group, and that's what the headline should say.

FearNotDaniel 2y ago
I don’t know if the HN Title has been altered since you posted this, but the verbatim wording “Young men now spend more of their free time alone than any other group” is in the screenshot of the chart taken directly from the original FT article, so that part stands despite your own hatred of such a choice of words. Whether that claim is (a) true and (b) significant, that’s a different question. However it seems that you and I are living in different bubbles because when your gut reaction is to feel the headline claim is false and/or meaningless, my immediate reaction is that it corresponds with ideas I’ve frequently encountered recently, that young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women, and a greater likelihood of being radicalised by extremist political groups of any flavour. I don’t know whether my worldview or yours is more correct, the truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle, all I know is that if there is a possibility that any of this is both true and significant then it takes calm and nuanced discussion backed up by well researched facts and a willingness to try potential interventions as a society - unless of course research and not just gut instinct tells us: no, this really isn’t a problem, we do live in a fair and just society and nobody is suffering.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women, Isn't violence towards women by the target demographic (Young American Men) the lowest it has ever been in human history?
  - FearNotDaniel 2y ago
    I don’t know, perhaps it is. If you have some data to back that up (or even a report from consumer media that dares to name its sources) then please do link it. My point above was that it’s easy to respond to such stuff with a gut reaction instead of pursuing research (which includes questioning the source, methodology and bias where appropriate). I’m currently too busy with my day job to go and research this in depth but hopefully the HN hive mind will produce a bunch of evidence by the end of the day…
- PhilipRoman 2y ago
  Definitely didn't mean to deny the problem. In fact, I agree with the article in it's entirety. My criticism was purely technical and applies only to the headline on HN. I've seen this trick used too many times to push various worldviews and I've started to look out for such statistical lies in media.
  - FearNotDaniel 2y ago
    I agree 100%: sensationalism helps nobody except extremist politicians, the media/tech channels that monetise engagement and anyone else who stands to profit from outrage and division in society.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
headlines like this should only exist if the mentioned group actually is worth caring and socially beneficial to talk about.
- lazide 2y ago
  So young men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss? If that’s the approach, historically that’s how you end up with violent street gangs, out of control criminal behavior, or massive numbers of NEETs.
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    >(young) men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss? They already aren't in any other issue discussion (violence, suicide, homelessness, jobless, legal, sickness, education) so at least it would be consistent.
  - vinyl7 2y ago
    Men already aren't cared for

FearNotDaniel 2y ago

I don’t know if the HN Title has been altered since you posted this, but the verbatim wording “Young men now spend more of their free time alone than any other group” is in the screenshot of the chart taken directly from the original FT article, so that part stands despite your own hatred of such a choice of words. Whether that claim is (a) true and (b) significant, that’s a different question. However it seems that you and I are living in different bubbles because when your gut reaction is to feel the headline claim is false and/or meaningless, my immediate reaction is that it corresponds with ideas I’ve frequently encountered recently, that young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women, and a greater likelihood of being radicalised by extremist political groups of any flavour. I don’t know whether my worldview or yours is more correct, the truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle, all I know is that if there is a possibility that any of this is both true and significant then it takes calm and nuanced discussion backed up by well researched facts and a willingness to try potential interventions as a society - unless of course research and not just gut instinct tells us: no, this really isn’t a problem, we do live in a fair and just society and nobody is suffering.

lelanthran 2y ago
> young men are finding it increasingly hard to form meaningful friendships and that some of the outcomes from that are an increased rate of depression, suicidal tendencies, violence towards each other and towards women, Isn't violence towards women by the target demographic (Young American Men) the lowest it has ever been in human history?
- FearNotDaniel 2y ago
  I don’t know, perhaps it is. If you have some data to back that up (or even a report from consumer media that dares to name its sources) then please do link it. My point above was that it’s easy to respond to such stuff with a gut reaction instead of pursuing research (which includes questioning the source, methodology and bias where appropriate). I’m currently too busy with my day job to go and research this in depth but hopefully the HN hive mind will produce a bunch of evidence by the end of the day…
PhilipRoman 2y ago
Definitely didn't mean to deny the problem. In fact, I agree with the article in it's entirety. My criticism was purely technical and applies only to the headline on HN. I've seen this trick used too many times to push various worldviews and I've started to look out for such statistical lies in media.
- FearNotDaniel 2y ago
  I agree 100%: sensationalism helps nobody except extremist politicians, the media/tech channels that monetise engagement and anyone else who stands to profit from outrage and division in society.

akimbostrawman 2y ago

headlines like this should only exist if the mentioned group actually is worth caring and socially beneficial to talk about.

lazide 2y ago
So young men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss? If that’s the approach, historically that’s how you end up with violent street gangs, out of control criminal behavior, or massive numbers of NEETs.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  >(young) men shouldn’t be cared about, and aren’t socially beneficial to discuss? They already aren't in any other issue discussion (violence, suicide, homelessness, jobless, legal, sickness, education) so at least it would be consistent.
- vinyl7 2y ago
  Men already aren't cared for