4 ms·

The war against DEI is clearly over so not that it matters anymore but I have to push back every time I see this sort of comment. DEI, as it relates to hiring,

The war against DEI is clearly over so not that it matters anymore but I have to push back every time I see this sort of comment. DEI, as it relates to hiring, does not and has never meant that people are hired because of their sex or skin color. What it means in practice is that organizations cast a wider net in the search for, and I can't stress this enough, qualified applicants. This wider net has proven to bring forth better candidates to organizations. Also, casting a wider net opens the door for people who are white/asian but come from less traditional backgrounds and/or less prestigious schools to apply as well. Please read up on what DEI truly is before applauding its demise. As scientist, engineers, programmers, and technologists (I assume you are one of those if you are in this forum) we can't blindly believe the propaganda of either side of the political spectrum. In this case, a coordinated effort has deliberately mischaracterized DEI and merit-based hiring as opposites. They are not opposites.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>qualified applicants. The problem is what "qualified" means under Affirmative Action, DEI, et al.. As a Japanese-American, I've both first- and second-hand witnessed racism against Asians (and Whites) in favor of Blacks and Hispanics in the name of Affirmative Action. That is racism and discrimination in both ways and there have been court rulings prohibiting Affirmative Action, I in absolute terms cannot in good faith accept Affirmative Action. The "D" in DEI stands for "Diversity", which in the majority of cases meant hiring people with stronger weighting placed on their race or nationality and sex. This again is very literally racism, sexism, and discrimination and completely unacceptable. The "E" in DEI stands for "Equity", which in clearer terms means Equal Conclusions, not Equal Opportunities as indirectly declared in our Declaration of Independence (all men created equal with an unalienable right to pursuit of happiness). This is an affront to one of the very cornerstones of our country and the American Dream, which is completely unacceptable. Lastly the "I" in DEI stands for "Inclusion", which would be fine were it not for the fact that the actual implementation has involved excluding peoples who do not subscribe to certain narratives. Nowhere has this been more obvious than in politics and specifically identity politics, where the Center and Right simply call me an American but the Left call me various labels. I very sincerely don't have time for that divisive bullshit. As someone who loves and appreciates science and technology and all the wonders we can accomplish, I reiterate my 300% support for the absolute rescinding of equity-based hiring and other equity-based human resources programmes. As Martin Luther King once said, I too dream of a day when everyone will be judged by the quality of their character. I dream of a day when everyone will be judged by what they are capable of, not what they are born as.
- btreecat 2y ago
  You experienced racism and are calling it DEI
  - zo1 2y ago
    DEI and other such affirmative action concepts are racism.
    - btreecat 2y ago
      The idea that I can't show preference for one thing with out showing prejudice from another is a farce
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    The sheer amount of regression against social liberalism over the last few decades truly is astonishing; you're literally trying to tell me that racism is equality and okay. I hope we're on the cusp of reversing course on all that so we can make MLK's dream a reality again.
    - btreecat 2y ago
      >you're literally trying to tell me that racism is equality and okay. Where did I say that?
ashoeafoot 2y ago
its a race based caste quota system in reality with a priesthood that accidentally spread racism. It produces the same results reliably as real world socialism. No need to read up on idealistic texts which produce the same outcome with the given real humans.
zo1 2y ago
I too have to push back, because I have been the victim of these laws and profiling, and I'm not an "ignorant" person falling for propaganda as you seem to imply is the only way for anti-DEI sentiments to occur. DEI is ideology and hidden threats of retaliation under the guise of "equality". And because nothing can be explicit, or it's all hidden under feel-good language (exactly the kind you used in your post). It adds a layer of redirection about what's really going on, and it all gets put forth with everyone having the understanding (because of examples) that if they don't find "diverse enough qualified" candidates, then they are racist and will be punished. Meanwhile, the language provides cover for blatant anti-white, anti-asian and anti-male discrimination: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/06/tech-industry-2020-anti-racism-commitments-progress-check.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/06/tech-industry-2020-anti-raci... They even have specialized software that uses AI to determine race (profiling?): https://www.piratewires.com/p/gem-hr-software-dei https://www.piratewires.com/p/gem-hr-software-dei Or what about ESG that has a racial-quota point system that allows investors and people to discriminate against companies that don't conform? https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/10/30/racial-equity-audits-a-new-esg-initiative/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/10/30/racial-equity-aud... This kind of stuff is just the tip of the iceberg, there is more: https://www.bloomberg.com/company/press/bloomberg-2023-gei/ https://www.bloomberg.com/company/press/bloomberg-2023-gei/ What about the fact that several countries (Western) have explicit gender-based quotas enacted as law. E.g. Norway, Germany, France, India, and others. Or what about countries that have actual race-based points systems to discriminate against minority (white) groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment And no, just because it's some obscure and obfuscated "points system" doesn't mean it isn't racial discrimination, profiling and retaliation against companies that don't conform. How some places in the US have race-quotas for boards: https://pacificlegal.org/discriminatory-mandates-prevent-qualified-individuals-serving-public-boards/ https://pacificlegal.org/discriminatory-mandates-prevent-qua... And there are so many more, it's right infront of our eyes: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/red-state-sues-tech-giant-ibm-over-diversity-quotas/ar-BB1oA19x https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/red-state-sues-tec... So why don't we drop the pretense, ordinary people see what's really going on, and no amount of sugar-coating and "feel good" words will make the very real discrimination go away, and they won't be gaslight and have their concerns waved away because of "falling for right wing propaganda" and "please read up on what DEI truly is".

Dalewyn 2y ago

>qualified applicants. The problem is what "qualified" means under Affirmative Action, DEI, et al.. As a Japanese-American, I've both first- and second-hand witnessed racism against Asians (and Whites) in favor of Blacks and Hispanics in the name of Affirmative Action. That is racism and discrimination in both ways and there have been court rulings prohibiting Affirmative Action, I in absolute terms cannot in good faith accept Affirmative Action. The "D" in DEI stands for "Diversity", which in the majority of cases meant hiring people with stronger weighting placed on their race or nationality and sex. This again is very literally racism, sexism, and discrimination and completely unacceptable. The "E" in DEI stands for "Equity", which in clearer terms means Equal Conclusions, not Equal Opportunities as indirectly declared in our Declaration of Independence (all men created equal with an unalienable right to pursuit of happiness). This is an affront to one of the very cornerstones of our country and the American Dream, which is completely unacceptable. Lastly the "I" in DEI stands for "Inclusion", which would be fine were it not for the fact that the actual implementation has involved excluding peoples who do not subscribe to certain narratives. Nowhere has this been more obvious than in politics and specifically identity politics, where the Center and Right simply call me an American but the Left call me various labels. I very sincerely don't have time for that divisive bullshit. As someone who loves and appreciates science and technology and all the wonders we can accomplish, I reiterate my 300% support for the absolute rescinding of equity-based hiring and other equity-based human resources programmes. As Martin Luther King once said, I too dream of a day when everyone will be judged by the quality of their character. I dream of a day when everyone will be judged by what they are capable of, not what they are born as.

btreecat 2y ago
You experienced racism and are calling it DEI
- zo1 2y ago
  DEI and other such affirmative action concepts are racism.
  - btreecat 2y ago
    The idea that I can't show preference for one thing with out showing prejudice from another is a farce
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  The sheer amount of regression against social liberalism over the last few decades truly is astonishing; you're literally trying to tell me that racism is equality and okay. I hope we're on the cusp of reversing course on all that so we can make MLK's dream a reality again.
  - btreecat 2y ago
    >you're literally trying to tell me that racism is equality and okay. Where did I say that?

ashoeafoot 2y ago

its a race based caste quota system in reality with a priesthood that accidentally spread racism. It produces the same results reliably as real world socialism. No need to read up on idealistic texts which produce the same outcome with the given real humans.

zo1 2y ago

I too have to push back, because I have been the victim of these laws and profiling, and I'm not an "ignorant" person falling for propaganda as you seem to imply is the only way for anti-DEI sentiments to occur. DEI is ideology and hidden threats of retaliation under the guise of "equality". And because nothing can be explicit, or it's all hidden under feel-good language (exactly the kind you used in your post). It adds a layer of redirection about what's really going on, and it all gets put forth with everyone having the understanding (because of examples) that if they don't find "diverse enough qualified" candidates, then they are racist and will be punished. Meanwhile, the language provides cover for blatant anti-white, anti-asian and anti-male discrimination: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/06/tech-industry-2020-anti-racism-commitments-progress-check.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/06/tech-industry-2020-anti-raci... They even have specialized software that uses AI to determine race (profiling?): https://www.piratewires.com/p/gem-hr-software-dei https://www.piratewires.com/p/gem-hr-software-dei Or what about ESG that has a racial-quota point system that allows investors and people to discriminate against companies that don't conform? https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/10/30/racial-equity-audits-a-new-esg-initiative/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/10/30/racial-equity-aud... This kind of stuff is just the tip of the iceberg, there is more: https://www.bloomberg.com/company/press/bloomberg-2023-gei/ https://www.bloomberg.com/company/press/bloomberg-2023-gei/ What about the fact that several countries (Western) have explicit gender-based quotas enacted as law. E.g. Norway, Germany, France, India, and others. Or what about countries that have actual race-based points systems to discriminate against minority (white) groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment And no, just because it's some obscure and obfuscated "points system" doesn't mean it isn't racial discrimination, profiling and retaliation against companies that don't conform. How some places in the US have race-quotas for boards: https://pacificlegal.org/discriminatory-mandates-prevent-qualified-individuals-serving-public-boards/ https://pacificlegal.org/discriminatory-mandates-prevent-qua... And there are so many more, it's right infront of our eyes: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/red-state-sues-tech-giant-ibm-over-diversity-quotas/ar-BB1oA19x https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/red-state-sues-tec... So why don't we drop the pretense, ordinary people see what's really going on, and no amount of sugar-coating and "feel good" words will make the very real discrimination go away, and they won't be gaslight and have their concerns waved away because of "falling for right wing propaganda" and "please read up on what DEI truly is".