4 ms·

Let's Hope Elon Musk Doesn't Take EVs with Him

7 points by zfg 2y ago

Terr_ 2y ago
> Let's Hope [the Self-Destruction of] Elon Musk Doesn't Take EVs with Him I'm not too worried, the market-demand has been proven, if Tesla implodes other companies will be motivated to fill the gap. > As Niedermeyer said, this is kind of an unprecedented act, mixing caustic social issues and vehicle manufacturing together in ways we’ve not seen, likely ever. What about the famous Henry Ford? Criticized as antisemitic, segregated black employees into certain roles (TBF, he did pay the same by role) and he also conditioned a portion of employee compensation on satisfying his private morality-police who would do home inspections. I'm sure Musk wanted his legacy to be compared with Ford's, but probably not in this particular way. :P
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Indeed, regardless of what happens to Elon and Tesla, EVs are here to stay so long as BYD continues to ramp towards serving global addressable market. Edit: BYD Pulls Ahead of Tesla to Become Largest EV Maker - https://www.statista.com/chart/33709/tesla-byd-electric-vehicle-production/ https://www.statista.com/chart/33709/tesla-byd-electric-vehi... - Jan 2025 The size of BYD's factory - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42228138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42228138 - Nov 2024 Bloomberg: BYD Is Winning the Global Race to Make Cheaper EVs - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-16/electric-car-brand-byd-leads-race-to-make-cheap-evs-despite-tariffs https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-16/electric-... | https://archive.today/uJLa4 https://archive.today/uJLa4 - Oct 2024 Mapped: Where Tesla and BYD Make Their Cars - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-tesla-and-byd-make-their-cars/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-tesla-and-byd-... - June 2024
  - verdverm 2y ago
    Hyundai has some pretty awesome EVs and battery tech. My Ioniq 6 is on the 800V architecture already, and the system is a platform they use in multiple vehicles. They have solid state batteries on the way too https://electrek.co/2024/12/26/hyundais-all-solid-state-ev-batteries-on-verge-of-milestone/ https://electrek.co/2024/12/26/hyundais-all-solid-state-ev-b...
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      I share your sentiment! however, I think hyundai has a problem I can sum up with words of my best friend when I recommended it to him - “I am not buying a fucking hyundai!” to put it in tech terms, hyundai needs a killer app (car). I think part of tesla’s success (besides the fact that cars are great) is that years ago tesla was a bit of status symbol. people used to point to tesla s when it first came out like tbey do at cybertruck these days (for different reasons :) ). then affordable models 3/y came out and people that were previously pointing their fingers can now drive that same brand. hyundai has I believe a steep climb even with lesser competition and I think they need a killer car to start that climb
      - ggm 2y ago
        The ioniq in my market is well regarded. As an i30 owner I can say value-for-money signal is strong. If they offer an i30 form factor value EV (the ioniq is priced to take on the Tesla, and sells well) I'd buy it. BYD and MG are competing in the value price slot here.
      - verdverm 2y ago
        The ioniq 6 is a direct competitor for the model 3, very comparable cars with each having a few pros on the other
        bdangubic 2y ago
        I would by ioniq6 in a heartbeat and was recommending it, I think it is an awesome car. just think a lot more people will choose 3 over it just because of the brand and not on the merits
        verdverm 2y ago
        There are a lot of people who will not even consider the Tesla brand anymore Tesla US sales were YoY lower in 2024 while other brands grew https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-electric-vehicle-sales-hit-193014918.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-electric-vehicle-sales-hit... > Tesla continued to lead the way in unit sales with 633,762 units sold for the full year. The bad news is this figure was down 5.6% year-over-year. > Tesla led the way in EV market share hitting 48.7% for the full 2024 year and was at 44.4% in the fourth quarter. In 2023, Tesla's EV market share was 55%, dropping from 65% in 2022.
- swatcoder 2y ago
  > What about the famous Henry Ford? Criticized as ... That's not really an apt comparison, as most such criticisms of Ford are post hoc rather than contemporary. While it's a given that some people were or would have been uncomfortable or even enraged by these things at the time, nome of them were widely controversial at the time, nor was Ford himself. It's more in looking back that we can see how he expressed his power in ways that were deeply illiberal and unmodern. At the time though, it wasn't the kind of thing that would earn big news cycles. What we see with Musk is very different. He specifically crafts his public image to be as controversial as he can get away with, and operates a major media enterprise largely for the purpose of drawing attention to it.
ggm 2y ago
BYD has significant market share, and had access to world class battery tech. The effect this Musk dilemma has, may well be measurable but the idea EV somehow fate share Tesla's current owners fate seems fanciful.
quantified 2y ago
EVs are fine. Producers need to be able to meet demand. Let's see how they do. Though Musk having the US government's ear may cause problems for Tesla competitors. Starlink is a different beast. The economy and society will look different if only MAGA takes advantage of its mobility. But at this point, using Starlink can also be seen as MAGA.

7 points by zfg 2y ago

> Let's Hope [the Self-Destruction of] Elon Musk Doesn't Take EVs with Him I'm not too worried, the market-demand has been proven, if Tesla implodes other companies will be motivated to fill the gap. > As Niedermeyer said, this is kind of an unprecedented act, mixing caustic social issues and vehicle manufacturing together in ways we’ve not seen, likely ever. What about the famous Henry Ford? Criticized as antisemitic, segregated black employees into certain roles (TBF, he did pay the same by role) and he also conditioned a portion of employee compensation on satisfying his private morality-police who would do home inspections. I'm sure Musk wanted his legacy to be compared with Ford's, but probably not in this particular way. :P

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Indeed, regardless of what happens to Elon and Tesla, EVs are here to stay so long as BYD continues to ramp towards serving global addressable market. Edit: BYD Pulls Ahead of Tesla to Become Largest EV Maker - https://www.statista.com/chart/33709/tesla-byd-electric-vehicle-production/ https://www.statista.com/chart/33709/tesla-byd-electric-vehi... - Jan 2025 The size of BYD's factory - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42228138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42228138 - Nov 2024 Bloomberg: BYD Is Winning the Global Race to Make Cheaper EVs - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-16/electric-car-brand-byd-leads-race-to-make-cheap-evs-despite-tariffs https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-16/electric-... | https://archive.today/uJLa4 https://archive.today/uJLa4 - Oct 2024 Mapped: Where Tesla and BYD Make Their Cars - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-tesla-and-byd-make-their-cars/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-tesla-and-byd-... - June 2024
- verdverm 2y ago
  Hyundai has some pretty awesome EVs and battery tech. My Ioniq 6 is on the 800V architecture already, and the system is a platform they use in multiple vehicles. They have solid state batteries on the way too https://electrek.co/2024/12/26/hyundais-all-solid-state-ev-batteries-on-verge-of-milestone/ https://electrek.co/2024/12/26/hyundais-all-solid-state-ev-b...
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    I share your sentiment! however, I think hyundai has a problem I can sum up with words of my best friend when I recommended it to him - “I am not buying a fucking hyundai!” to put it in tech terms, hyundai needs a killer app (car). I think part of tesla’s success (besides the fact that cars are great) is that years ago tesla was a bit of status symbol. people used to point to tesla s when it first came out like tbey do at cybertruck these days (for different reasons :) ). then affordable models 3/y came out and people that were previously pointing their fingers can now drive that same brand. hyundai has I believe a steep climb even with lesser competition and I think they need a killer car to start that climb
    - ggm 2y ago
      The ioniq in my market is well regarded. As an i30 owner I can say value-for-money signal is strong. If they offer an i30 form factor value EV (the ioniq is priced to take on the Tesla, and sells well) I'd buy it. BYD and MG are competing in the value price slot here.
    - verdverm 2y ago
      The ioniq 6 is a direct competitor for the model 3, very comparable cars with each having a few pros on the other
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        I would by ioniq6 in a heartbeat and was recommending it, I think it is an awesome car. just think a lot more people will choose 3 over it just because of the brand and not on the merits
        verdverm 2y ago
        There are a lot of people who will not even consider the Tesla brand anymore Tesla US sales were YoY lower in 2024 while other brands grew https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-electric-vehicle-sales-hit-193014918.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-electric-vehicle-sales-hit... > Tesla continued to lead the way in unit sales with 633,762 units sold for the full year. The bad news is this figure was down 5.6% year-over-year. > Tesla led the way in EV market share hitting 48.7% for the full 2024 year and was at 44.4% in the fourth quarter. In 2023, Tesla's EV market share was 55%, dropping from 65% in 2022.
swatcoder 2y ago
> What about the famous Henry Ford? Criticized as ... That's not really an apt comparison, as most such criticisms of Ford are post hoc rather than contemporary. While it's a given that some people were or would have been uncomfortable or even enraged by these things at the time, nome of them were widely controversial at the time, nor was Ford himself. It's more in looking back that we can see how he expressed his power in ways that were deeply illiberal and unmodern. At the time though, it wasn't the kind of thing that would earn big news cycles. What we see with Musk is very different. He specifically crafts his public image to be as controversial as he can get away with, and operates a major media enterprise largely for the purpose of drawing attention to it.

ggm 2y ago

BYD has significant market share, and had access to world class battery tech. The effect this Musk dilemma has, may well be measurable but the idea EV somehow fate share Tesla's current owners fate seems fanciful.

quantified 2y ago

EVs are fine. Producers need to be able to meet demand. Let's see how they do. Though Musk having the US government's ear may cause problems for Tesla competitors. Starlink is a different beast. The economy and society will look different if only MAGA takes advantage of its mobility. But at this point, using Starlink can also be seen as MAGA.