4 ms·

There's a terrifying amount of food insecurity and poverty in Russia - https://www.globalhungerindex.org/russia.html https://www.globalhungerindex.org/russia.h

by dbspin 2y ago

There's a terrifying amount of food insecurity and poverty in Russia - https://www.globalhungerindex.org/russia.html https://www.globalhungerindex.org/russia.html - https://databankfiles.worldbank.org/public/ddpext_download/poverty/987B9C90-CB9F-4D93-AE8C-750588BF00QA/current/Global_POVEQ_RUS.pdf https://databankfiles.worldbank.org/public/ddpext_download/p...

palmfacehn 2y ago
I would wager that states such as Russia and others misallocate resources, which in turn reduces productivity. Worse yet, some of the policy prescriptions stated above would further misallocate scarce resources and reduce productivity. Scarcity doom becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. This outcome is used to rationalize further economic intervention and the cycle compounds upon itself. To be explicitly clear, the US granting largess to tech companies for datacenters also counts as a misallocation in my view.
tim333 2y ago
Your first link says "With a score under 5, Russian Federation has a level of hunger that is low." The current situation with Russia and China seems caused by them becoming prosperous. In the 1960s in China and 1990s in Russia they were broke. Now they have money they can afford to put it into their militaries and try to attack the neighbours. I'm reminded of the KAL cartoon on Russia https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=80,format=auto/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20140322_WWD000_0.jpg https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=8... That was from 2014. Already Russia is heading to the next panel in the cycle.
- jeffreyq 2y ago
  > Already Russia is heading to the next panel in the cycle. Curious if you could share some links, or readings, blog posts, etc. in relation to this
  - tim333 2y ago
    I don't have special information but there is general stuff in the headlines like Putin growing concerned by Russia’s economy, as Trump pushes for Ukraine deal https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-growing-concerned-by-russias-economy-trump-mulls-more-sanctions-2025-01-23/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-growing-concerned... Also basically the whole western world are progressively sanctioning them eg. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-imposes-new-wave-of-sanctions-choking-russian-oil-revenues-with-foreign-secretary-arriving-in-italy-for-g7 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-imposes-new-wave-of-sa... and https://kyivindependent.com/us-likely-to-sanction-russia-if-moscow-refuses-peace-negotiations/ https://kyivindependent.com/us-likely-to-sanction-russia-if-... Plus the war is expensive. Plus Ukraine's main strategy at the moment seems to be to take out their oil and related industries using drones https://www.newsweek.com/russia-map-shows-critical-infrastructure-blasted-ukraine-this-week-2016757 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-map-shows-critical-infrastru... I'm not sure it's going to change unless there is some sort of deal or Putin goes.
infecto 2y ago
Russia is run by the mob. The country has no real dominant industry beyond its natural resources. Are they really a good example?
- cpursley 2y ago
  Not according to the World Bank: https://thedocs.worldbank.org/en/doc/d5f32ef28464d01f195827b7e020a3e8-0500022021/related/mpo-rus.pdf https://thedocs.worldbank.org/en/doc/d5f32ef28464d01f195827b... Furthermore, they became #4 GDP PPP last year and and were reclassified as a high income country. https://www.intellinews.com/russia-s-economy-is-booming-328908/ https://www.intellinews.com/russia-s-economy-is-booming-3289... The poorer regions are actually benefiting from high contract salaries. How sustainable that is, guess we'll see.
  - andrepd 2y ago
    Goes to show how much GDP is a good measure (or target) to aim for.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    > they became #4 GDP PPP That doesn't mean much on its own. Their per capita GDP is still low. Also arguably their GDP figures are worth even less than Ireland's. A huge proportion of Russia's economy is tied in military production (and huge proportion of that is funded through debt). If you make a rocket worth $1 million and then blow it up the next month that cost is obviously included in GDP but it's literally the equivalent of burning money/productivity.
    - cpursley 2y ago
      Their debt to GDP ratio was 14.6% at the end of 2024, a decrease from 2023. US is 123.1% of GDP while Ireland is at 42.7%. And PPP is the number that matters - its one of the big factors which governs quality of life, at which price you can produce and sell widgets, bushels, etc. And btw, that guns/butter calculus also applies to the US, etc.
akho 2y ago
Have you tried opening the links? They show Russia at developed country level in terms of food insecurity (score <5, they don't differentiate at those levels; this is a level mostly shown for EU countries); and a percentage of population below the international poverty line of 0.0% (vs, as an example, 1.8 % in Romania). This isn't great — being in the poverty briefs at all is not indicative of prosperity — but your terrification should probably come from elsewhere.
cpursley 2y ago
Russia is a massive grain producer and exporter. One of their biggest health issues right now is obesity (from those cheap grains) with 60% of the adult population overweight, and growing. Furthermore, obesity has actually been an issue for their recruiting effort (there's a lot of running in war).

by dbspin 2y ago

palmfacehn 2y ago

I would wager that states such as Russia and others misallocate resources, which in turn reduces productivity. Worse yet, some of the policy prescriptions stated above would further misallocate scarce resources and reduce productivity. Scarcity doom becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. This outcome is used to rationalize further economic intervention and the cycle compounds upon itself. To be explicitly clear, the US granting largess to tech companies for datacenters also counts as a misallocation in my view.

tim333 2y ago

Your first link says "With a score under 5, Russian Federation has a level of hunger that is low." The current situation with Russia and China seems caused by them becoming prosperous. In the 1960s in China and 1990s in Russia they were broke. Now they have money they can afford to put it into their militaries and try to attack the neighbours. I'm reminded of the KAL cartoon on Russia https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=80,format=auto/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20140322_WWD000_0.jpg https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=8... That was from 2014. Already Russia is heading to the next panel in the cycle.

jeffreyq 2y ago
> Already Russia is heading to the next panel in the cycle. Curious if you could share some links, or readings, blog posts, etc. in relation to this
- tim333 2y ago
  I don't have special information but there is general stuff in the headlines like Putin growing concerned by Russia’s economy, as Trump pushes for Ukraine deal https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-growing-concerned-by-russias-economy-trump-mulls-more-sanctions-2025-01-23/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-growing-concerned... Also basically the whole western world are progressively sanctioning them eg. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-imposes-new-wave-of-sanctions-choking-russian-oil-revenues-with-foreign-secretary-arriving-in-italy-for-g7 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-imposes-new-wave-of-sa... and https://kyivindependent.com/us-likely-to-sanction-russia-if-moscow-refuses-peace-negotiations/ https://kyivindependent.com/us-likely-to-sanction-russia-if-... Plus the war is expensive. Plus Ukraine's main strategy at the moment seems to be to take out their oil and related industries using drones https://www.newsweek.com/russia-map-shows-critical-infrastructure-blasted-ukraine-this-week-2016757 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-map-shows-critical-infrastru... I'm not sure it's going to change unless there is some sort of deal or Putin goes.

infecto 2y ago

Russia is run by the mob. The country has no real dominant industry beyond its natural resources. Are they really a good example?

cpursley 2y ago
Not according to the World Bank: https://thedocs.worldbank.org/en/doc/d5f32ef28464d01f195827b7e020a3e8-0500022021/related/mpo-rus.pdf https://thedocs.worldbank.org/en/doc/d5f32ef28464d01f195827b... Furthermore, they became #4 GDP PPP last year and and were reclassified as a high income country. https://www.intellinews.com/russia-s-economy-is-booming-328908/ https://www.intellinews.com/russia-s-economy-is-booming-3289... The poorer regions are actually benefiting from high contract salaries. How sustainable that is, guess we'll see.
- andrepd 2y ago
  Goes to show how much GDP is a good measure (or target) to aim for.
- qwytw 2y ago
  > they became #4 GDP PPP That doesn't mean much on its own. Their per capita GDP is still low. Also arguably their GDP figures are worth even less than Ireland's. A huge proportion of Russia's economy is tied in military production (and huge proportion of that is funded through debt). If you make a rocket worth $1 million and then blow it up the next month that cost is obviously included in GDP but it's literally the equivalent of burning money/productivity.
  - cpursley 2y ago
    Their debt to GDP ratio was 14.6% at the end of 2024, a decrease from 2023. US is 123.1% of GDP while Ireland is at 42.7%. And PPP is the number that matters - its one of the big factors which governs quality of life, at which price you can produce and sell widgets, bushels, etc. And btw, that guns/butter calculus also applies to the US, etc.

akho 2y ago

Have you tried opening the links? They show Russia at developed country level in terms of food insecurity (score <5, they don't differentiate at those levels; this is a level mostly shown for EU countries); and a percentage of population below the international poverty line of 0.0% (vs, as an example, 1.8 % in Romania). This isn't great — being in the poverty briefs at all is not indicative of prosperity — but your terrification should probably come from elsewhere.

cpursley 2y ago

Russia is a massive grain producer and exporter. One of their biggest health issues right now is obesity (from those cheap grains) with 60% of the adult population overweight, and growing. Furthermore, obesity has actually been an issue for their recruiting effort (there's a lot of running in war).