5 ms·

It's surprising to me that the prosecutor is allowed to essentially insinuate crimes to influence the jury, without the need to prove them. That seems to underm

by srj 2y ago

It's surprising to me that the prosecutor is allowed to essentially insinuate crimes to influence the jury, without the need to prove them. That seems to undermine the process because it creates a "there's smoke so there must be fire" mentality for the jury.

tveita 2y ago
There was plenty of evidence that he ordered the hits, and the defense had the opportunity to address the evidence in court. The chat logs go far beyond "insinuation" It's ridiculous that people are pretending there is any doubt about his guilt because they like crypto and/or drugs.
- echoangle 2y ago
  So why not properly charge him then? Do you not think the optics are a bit weird when you sentence someone to life for something relatively small, but the reason is another crime you’re very sure he did but you didn’t bother to charge him with?
  - tveita 2y ago
    Being a drug kingpin is not considered "something relatively small" under US law, as you can see from the sentencing. Being the leader of a large drug operation and ordering hits to protect your business would be considered worse than trying to take out a hit for whatever "personal reasons". Obviously the hits are a lot messier to prosecute as well with the misconduct of the FBI agents, maybe you could hammer that enough to confuse a jury. But people are commenting like the evidence outright didn't exist - I can only think they have either heard it told second-hand, or are employing motivated reasoning.
  - olalonde 2y ago
    Prosecutors often choose not to pursue additional charges against someone already serving a life sentence. This approach helps avoid wasting court time and resources on cases that are unlikely to change the individual’s circumstances or contribute meaningfully to justice (none of the murders for hire resulted in victims). I actually wonder if those charges may still be on the table now that a pardon has been granted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutorial_discretion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutorial_discretion
    - philjohn 2y ago
      AFAIK they were dismissed with prejudice, so can't be brought again.
      - olalonde 2y ago
        If I understand correctly, only one of the "murder-for-hire" allegations was dismissed with prejudice[0]. However, he was suspected of orchestrating a total of six "murder-for-hire" plots. [0] https://freeross.org/false-allegations/ https://freeross.org/false-allegations/
      - myko 2y ago
        Comically (horrifically sadly?) they were dismissed that way because he was already in prison for life with no possibility of getting out, so the court did not want to waste time on it. And here we are
- lII1lIlI11ll 2y ago
  Of course it is. Throwing in potential evidence of unrelated crimes to sway other people's (specifically jury's) opinion about the defendant without formally charging him is exactly what the word "insinuation" means[0]: the action of suggesting, without being direct, that something unpleasant is true [0]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/insinuation https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/insinuat...
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  > There was plenty of evidence that he ordered the hits, and the defense had the opportunity to address the evidence in court Clearly not that much evidence if the state didn't bother to prosecute those charges. And why would they? The judge sentenced him as though he had been found guilty of them.
RetpolineDrama 2y ago
It's a gross miscarriage of justice. The gov should have to prove you committed a crime before that information is admissible at sentencing.
jari_mustonen 2y ago
Coincidentally, on the same day, SCOTUS confirmed in Andrew v. White ruling [1] that admitting prejudicial evidence violates due process rights under the 14th Amendment. 1. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-6573_m647.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-6573_m647.pdf

by srj 2y ago

tveita 2y ago

There was plenty of evidence that he ordered the hits, and the defense had the opportunity to address the evidence in court. The chat logs go far beyond "insinuation" It's ridiculous that people are pretending there is any doubt about his guilt because they like crypto and/or drugs.

echoangle 2y ago
So why not properly charge him then? Do you not think the optics are a bit weird when you sentence someone to life for something relatively small, but the reason is another crime you’re very sure he did but you didn’t bother to charge him with?
- tveita 2y ago
  Being a drug kingpin is not considered "something relatively small" under US law, as you can see from the sentencing. Being the leader of a large drug operation and ordering hits to protect your business would be considered worse than trying to take out a hit for whatever "personal reasons". Obviously the hits are a lot messier to prosecute as well with the misconduct of the FBI agents, maybe you could hammer that enough to confuse a jury. But people are commenting like the evidence outright didn't exist - I can only think they have either heard it told second-hand, or are employing motivated reasoning.
- olalonde 2y ago
  Prosecutors often choose not to pursue additional charges against someone already serving a life sentence. This approach helps avoid wasting court time and resources on cases that are unlikely to change the individual’s circumstances or contribute meaningfully to justice (none of the murders for hire resulted in victims). I actually wonder if those charges may still be on the table now that a pardon has been granted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutorial_discretion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutorial_discretion
  - philjohn 2y ago
    AFAIK they were dismissed with prejudice, so can't be brought again.
    - olalonde 2y ago
      If I understand correctly, only one of the "murder-for-hire" allegations was dismissed with prejudice[0]. However, he was suspected of orchestrating a total of six "murder-for-hire" plots. [0] https://freeross.org/false-allegations/ https://freeross.org/false-allegations/
    - myko 2y ago
      Comically (horrifically sadly?) they were dismissed that way because he was already in prison for life with no possibility of getting out, so the court did not want to waste time on it. And here we are
lII1lIlI11ll 2y ago
Of course it is. Throwing in potential evidence of unrelated crimes to sway other people's (specifically jury's) opinion about the defendant without formally charging him is exactly what the word "insinuation" means[0]: the action of suggesting, without being direct, that something unpleasant is true [0]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/insinuation https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/insinuat...
sebzim4500 2y ago
> There was plenty of evidence that he ordered the hits, and the defense had the opportunity to address the evidence in court Clearly not that much evidence if the state didn't bother to prosecute those charges. And why would they? The judge sentenced him as though he had been found guilty of them.

RetpolineDrama 2y ago

It's a gross miscarriage of justice. The gov should have to prove you committed a crime before that information is admissible at sentencing.

jari_mustonen 2y ago

Coincidentally, on the same day, SCOTUS confirmed in Andrew v. White ruling [1] that admitting prejudicial evidence violates due process rights under the 14th Amendment. 1. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-6573_m647.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-6573_m647.pdf