5 ms·

Madoff got 150 years for non-violent charges (and he didn't even try to have anyone killed). Died in prison.

t-writescode 2y ago
It is wildly harmful and an escalation of monstrous practices to look at one or several unjust actions and/or sentences and declare that those who do worse than the person who was dealt out such a retribution should receive an even longer sentence. If someone gets 10 years for smoking weed, the solution is not to put someone in prison for 20 years for punching someone.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I wasn't implying that either Ulbricht or Madoff's sentences were unjust.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  On the same principle, noting that someone who punched someone got one day in jail is not a good justification for why someone shouldn't get two days in jail for smoking weed.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I know this is all semantics, but my State made weed legal a while ago. So the justification for smoking weed -> Jail is a whole lot higher.
    - cbsmith 2y ago
      It's not all semantics. You are providing an entirely different justification for why someone shouldn't get two days in jail for smoking weed.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        I imagine "because it's not illegal" is semantics because I know that that's not a law on every state nor country.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
loeg 2y ago
Madoff stole $20-35B, but by some measures a human life is only worth $10M. I am not really asserting those figures are comparable, just that Madoff stole a lot of money.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Nah, it's more that you do not fuck with the money system. SBF is learning that same lesson. Jeff Skilling (Enron) served 12 years in jail for insider trading and securities. Not saying that Skilling, Maddoff or SBF shouldn't have gone to jail. They deserved it. But I do find it interesting that financial crimes can tend to be the most harshly judged, likely because of who they impact (the people with money) and because they cause distrust of the financial system as a whole. > Madoff stole $20-35B Not to defend Madoff, but it's not like he made off with that money himself, so I'm not sure "stole" is the correct term. Most of that money went to investors -- it just went to a different set of investors than the ones who had put that money in (the nature of a Ponzi scheme).
  - dmix 2y ago
    > Nah, it's more that you do not fuck with the money system. Isn't a common critique of the justice system that white-collar crime gets you less prison time (in nicer jails) than being for ex a drug dealer? Plenty of finance scammers and conmen who stole millions get <5-10yr sentences
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      yes, unless you're a big enough finance scammer that you stole from really rich people (most scammers who steal millions don't get it from the very rich)
      - mattmaroon 2y ago
        People have gone to jail for longer for selling weed, I think the argument that finacial crimes get you longer prison sentences is absurd.
jandrese 2y ago
Madoff stole from the rich. That is a sure fire way to have the book thrown at you. Smart criminals steal from the poor, because they don’t fight back as much and the justice system doesn’t care.
butlike 2y ago
The rule is: do whatever, but don't make the federal government look bad. AKA file your taxes, essentially.

It is wildly harmful and an escalation of monstrous practices to look at one or several unjust actions and/or sentences and declare that those who do worse than the person who was dealt out such a retribution should receive an even longer sentence. If someone gets 10 years for smoking weed, the solution is not to put someone in prison for 20 years for punching someone.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
I wasn't implying that either Ulbricht or Madoff's sentences were unjust.
cbsmith 2y ago
On the same principle, noting that someone who punched someone got one day in jail is not a good justification for why someone shouldn't get two days in jail for smoking weed.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  I know this is all semantics, but my State made weed legal a while ago. So the justification for smoking weed -> Jail is a whole lot higher.
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    It's not all semantics. You are providing an entirely different justification for why someone shouldn't get two days in jail for smoking weed.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I imagine "because it's not illegal" is semantics because I know that that's not a law on every state nor country.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

loeg 2y ago

Madoff stole $20-35B, but by some measures a human life is only worth $10M. I am not really asserting those figures are comparable, just that Madoff stole a lot of money.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
Nah, it's more that you do not fuck with the money system. SBF is learning that same lesson. Jeff Skilling (Enron) served 12 years in jail for insider trading and securities. Not saying that Skilling, Maddoff or SBF shouldn't have gone to jail. They deserved it. But I do find it interesting that financial crimes can tend to be the most harshly judged, likely because of who they impact (the people with money) and because they cause distrust of the financial system as a whole. > Madoff stole $20-35B Not to defend Madoff, but it's not like he made off with that money himself, so I'm not sure "stole" is the correct term. Most of that money went to investors -- it just went to a different set of investors than the ones who had put that money in (the nature of a Ponzi scheme).
- dmix 2y ago
  > Nah, it's more that you do not fuck with the money system. Isn't a common critique of the justice system that white-collar crime gets you less prison time (in nicer jails) than being for ex a drug dealer? Plenty of finance scammers and conmen who stole millions get <5-10yr sentences
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    yes, unless you're a big enough finance scammer that you stole from really rich people (most scammers who steal millions don't get it from the very rich)
    - mattmaroon 2y ago
      People have gone to jail for longer for selling weed, I think the argument that finacial crimes get you longer prison sentences is absurd.

jandrese 2y ago

Madoff stole from the rich. That is a sure fire way to have the book thrown at you. Smart criminals steal from the poor, because they don’t fight back as much and the justice system doesn’t care.

butlike 2y ago

The rule is: do whatever, but don't make the federal government look bad. AKA file your taxes, essentially.