6 ms·

Libertarians are very hard to take seriously because of shit like this. Nothing about Donald Trump is Libertarian.

by dralley 2y ago

defrost 2y ago
However both Libertarians and Trump are transactional.
- ty6853 2y ago
  I don't judge anyone too hard when they're willing to bend a bit to get someone out of jail after the key has been thrown away. I didn't vote Trump but I will admit the possibility of Ross being released made me pause when I marked my ballot, even his mom's image flashed in my mind and I felt guilty for not helping.
  - sirbutters 2y ago
    Of all the issues in this country that really has impact on millions of people, I am baffled when I hear people only caring about 1 person and not care about the common good of society and the hundreds of millions of people in the US who live in it. Fascinating and depressing.
mannerheim 2y ago
Biden could have taken the wind out of Trump's sails by commuting Ulbricht's sentence when he was in office. If you don't think a group's interests are worth listening to, don't be surprised when that group votes for someone who does.
mindslight 2y ago
Very little about the Libertarian party is libertarian. Yet another party carrying water for authoritarianism, with the difference being that the implementation is through corporations.
- monero-xmr 2y ago
  Libertarians are a self selecting bunch. Very few were raised into this philosophy. You can appreciate that my self identification as a libertarian is a careful, reasoned decision and not one that was flippantly made. It is the philosophy that is the most accurate and truthful to me.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    Read my comment again. I self-identify as a libertarian as I see individual freedom as paramount. But I kept going with the analysis to realize that the Libertarian Party does very little to represent that ideal.
    - monero-xmr 2y ago
      My apologies, I thought you were accusing libertarians of authoritarianism (the irony!). I find the Mises Caucus at least useful in pushing to do more than simply be an affinity group for people pretending to play politics. I find partying with LP officials to be very hilarious, what a group of odd balls. But the party itself has no hope of electoral victory, which is why everyone should vote Republican in the current iteration of two-party politics from the libertarian lens.
      - mindslight 2y ago
        My point is that even if there were an electoral victory, the Libertarian Party would not bring individual freedom. They are operating from an assertion that starting with a list of moral axioms, every implication will be morally right by construction. By itself this is terribly mistaken (see Godel), but it goes askew even sooner when a few poor axioms are allowed to remain through "pragmatism", regulatory capture, etc. As for the current political environment, I'd say that bureaucratic authoritarianism is at least the devil we know and can be routed around by individuals, whereas autocratic authoritarianism is at best a wildcard that stands to destroy a good chunk of the laws that have actually been restraining naked power.
      - 2y ago
beeflet 2y ago
yeah but freeing ross was a key campaign promise made by trump to sway libertarian voters
robocat 2y ago
They just won something they cared about: perhaps you should be taking them even more seriously than you did. And even if you are not a fan of a political group, you are the one being judgemental here on a factor that is very unlikely to be universal within the group. Treating anyone according to political labels is divisive.
- rafram 2y ago
  They got a single guy out of prison, but pretty much everything else in Trump's platform is diametrically opposed to libertarianism. It's hard to think of anything less libertarian than tariff-funded big government!
  - monero-xmr 2y ago
    Tariffs are not good for free market diehards. However the nuance is that foreign countries like China do not operate on a fair playing field, they want free access to our markets but prevent our champions from entering their's. Something must be done here. I'm not convinced tariffs are the best tool, but at least it's something. In terms of small government, there is news about the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) every single day. There will be a massive downsizing in the federal workforce and the regulatory state over the next 4 years. This move towards small government is the thing that excites me most.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Trump has is proposing a 10% tariff on China, and a 25% tariff on Mexico. Also he's handing out tariff exemptions to his political allies like candy. There's not some high minded principal or strategy here. It's graft and spite. Trump even seems to be holding out the tariff threat as leverage to force the sale of TikTok. Look you can agree with this stuff if you want but none of it is remotely aligned with libertarian principles. Even squishy ones.
      - NekkoDroid 2y ago
        > Trump has is proposing a 10% tariff on China, and a 25% tariff on Mexico. Wasn't it 60% for China, 25% for Canada and Mexico and 10% for the rest of the planet?
chromatin 2y ago
> Nothing about Donald Trump is Libertarian. so what? Coalition-building is common in the rest of the democratic world. This is, in my view, a similar thing.

Libertarians are very hard to take seriously because of shit like this. Nothing about Donald Trump is Libertarian.

defrost 2y ago

However both Libertarians and Trump are transactional.

ty6853 2y ago
I don't judge anyone too hard when they're willing to bend a bit to get someone out of jail after the key has been thrown away. I didn't vote Trump but I will admit the possibility of Ross being released made me pause when I marked my ballot, even his mom's image flashed in my mind and I felt guilty for not helping.
- sirbutters 2y ago
  Of all the issues in this country that really has impact on millions of people, I am baffled when I hear people only caring about 1 person and not care about the common good of society and the hundreds of millions of people in the US who live in it. Fascinating and depressing.

mannerheim 2y ago

Biden could have taken the wind out of Trump's sails by commuting Ulbricht's sentence when he was in office. If you don't think a group's interests are worth listening to, don't be surprised when that group votes for someone who does.

mindslight 2y ago

Very little about the Libertarian party is libertarian. Yet another party carrying water for authoritarianism, with the difference being that the implementation is through corporations.

monero-xmr 2y ago
Libertarians are a self selecting bunch. Very few were raised into this philosophy. You can appreciate that my self identification as a libertarian is a careful, reasoned decision and not one that was flippantly made. It is the philosophy that is the most accurate and truthful to me.
- mindslight 2y ago
  Read my comment again. I self-identify as a libertarian as I see individual freedom as paramount. But I kept going with the analysis to realize that the Libertarian Party does very little to represent that ideal.
  - monero-xmr 2y ago
    My apologies, I thought you were accusing libertarians of authoritarianism (the irony!). I find the Mises Caucus at least useful in pushing to do more than simply be an affinity group for people pretending to play politics. I find partying with LP officials to be very hilarious, what a group of odd balls. But the party itself has no hope of electoral victory, which is why everyone should vote Republican in the current iteration of two-party politics from the libertarian lens.
    - mindslight 2y ago
      My point is that even if there were an electoral victory, the Libertarian Party would not bring individual freedom. They are operating from an assertion that starting with a list of moral axioms, every implication will be morally right by construction. By itself this is terribly mistaken (see Godel), but it goes askew even sooner when a few poor axioms are allowed to remain through "pragmatism", regulatory capture, etc. As for the current political environment, I'd say that bureaucratic authoritarianism is at least the devil we know and can be routed around by individuals, whereas autocratic authoritarianism is at best a wildcard that stands to destroy a good chunk of the laws that have actually been restraining naked power.
    - 2y ago

beeflet 2y ago

yeah but freeing ross was a key campaign promise made by trump to sway libertarian voters

robocat 2y ago

They just won something they cared about: perhaps you should be taking them even more seriously than you did. And even if you are not a fan of a political group, you are the one being judgemental here on a factor that is very unlikely to be universal within the group. Treating anyone according to political labels is divisive.

rafram 2y ago
They got a single guy out of prison, but pretty much everything else in Trump's platform is diametrically opposed to libertarianism. It's hard to think of anything less libertarian than tariff-funded big government!
- monero-xmr 2y ago
  Tariffs are not good for free market diehards. However the nuance is that foreign countries like China do not operate on a fair playing field, they want free access to our markets but prevent our champions from entering their's. Something must be done here. I'm not convinced tariffs are the best tool, but at least it's something. In terms of small government, there is news about the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) every single day. There will be a massive downsizing in the federal workforce and the regulatory state over the next 4 years. This move towards small government is the thing that excites me most.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Trump has is proposing a 10% tariff on China, and a 25% tariff on Mexico. Also he's handing out tariff exemptions to his political allies like candy. There's not some high minded principal or strategy here. It's graft and spite. Trump even seems to be holding out the tariff threat as leverage to force the sale of TikTok. Look you can agree with this stuff if you want but none of it is remotely aligned with libertarian principles. Even squishy ones.
    - NekkoDroid 2y ago
      > Trump has is proposing a 10% tariff on China, and a 25% tariff on Mexico. Wasn't it 60% for China, 25% for Canada and Mexico and 10% for the rest of the planet?

chromatin 2y ago

> Nothing about Donald Trump is Libertarian. so what? Coalition-building is common in the rest of the democratic world. This is, in my view, a similar thing.