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Wasn’t he in jail for hiring a contract killer? I’m all for the freeing him of his crimes when it comes to his crypto anarchic philosophy. But I find it hard t

Wasn’t he in jail for hiring a contract killer? I’m all for the freeing him of his crimes when it comes to his crypto anarchic philosophy. But I find it hard to pardon someone for contract killing essentially. Also I’m not an apologist for the FBIs handling of this case either.

hypeatei 2y ago
No, that charge was dropped. IIRC, it was on shaky ground and they were just trying to throw the book at him.
- tzs 2y ago
  The charge was dropped, but the court did hold a hearing on it when deciding on sentencing. They heard the evidence for and against and ruled by a preponderance of the evidence that he did in fact do it.
  - beezle 2y ago
    Wonder if he can be charged with that now? Was there anything in the pardon related to this? AFAIK there is no time limit on bringing charges related to murder?
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    Then why would they drop the charge if they thought the evidence pointed to the fact he did it.
    - cjbgkagh 2y ago
      'preponderance' is the clue, criminal is 'beyond all reasonable doubt', civil is preponderance. Ross was being charged under criminal law.
      - qingcharles 2y ago
        This. Evidence that isn't strong enough to criminally convict can be used for other purposes (e.g. sentencing, knowledge/intent, civil forfeiture, civil damages etc). (see OJ Simpson paying money damages for a crime he was acquitted of)
    - rsanek 2y ago
      this would be a criminal charge preponderance of the evidence wouldn't be enough to convict
      - selimthegrim 2y ago
        Sentencing phase
    - tzs 2y ago
      Separate courts. He was indicted and tried for all the non-murder stuff in a New York federal court. He was indicted separately in a Maryland federal court on a murder-for-hire charge. The New York court convicted him, and then considered the murder-for-hire allegations when determining his sentence. They found them true by a preponderance of the evidence and and that was a factor in his sentence to life without parole. He appealed, and the Second Circuit upheld the sentence. The prosecutors in Maryland then dropped the murder-for-hire charge because there was no point. They said this would allow them to direct their resources to other other cases where justice had not yet been served.
      - gigatexal 2y ago
        [flagged]
        honestSysAdmin 2y ago
        The Silk Road run by Ross Ulbricht did not have assassins on it, nor did it have any human trafficking on it. I support your right to disagree with the pardon. But please don't recklessly post disinformation like that.
        Bud 2y ago
        [dead]
        zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
        That's not true. It wasn't a free for all platform.
        gigatexal 2y ago
        Hmm did some research. Apparently it wasn’t just drugs and random stuff. I had always thought it was the 4chan of marketplaces. https://www.gawkerarchives.com/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imag-30818160 https://www.gawkerarchives.com/the-underground-website-where... Though an article by CBS (transcript is an interview) has this: “THE HUNT FOR DREAD PIRATE ROBERTS In 2011 there was a new bad guy in cyberspace behind the website Silk Road. He oversaw more than $200 million in illegal transactions on the dark web, involving the sale of drugs, weapons and illicit services such as computer hacking. Even murders for hire were discussed on the site.” “Milan Patel: We saw murder-for-hire postings, hacking-for-hire postings, which was, "hey, pay me two bitcoin, and I'll hack into your ex-wife or ex-husband's email account." … and I suspect people were using it because it made a lot of sense. It was totally anonymous. And you could never trace it back to the person who asked for it.” https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ross-ulbricht-dread-pirate-roberts-silk-road-fbi/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ross-ulbricht-dread-pirate-... It stands to reason that given criminals buying and selling drugs online that the adjacent work of hacking or even murder for hire would be sought or facilitated given the fact that folks on the platform thought they were anonymous as they were transacting in bitcoin. So someone should call the FBIs bluff and given this pardon either Ross himself or one of you — his fans — could go spin up a server and restart silk road. Trump’s basically saying it’s legal. As he’s got the power to enforce or not enforce the laws this pardon basically is saying start selling drugs online. Let your libertarian freak flag fly.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      Possibly because he was already facing a long sentence and it wasn't worth pursuing that charge.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  It had a lot to do with the fact that they already had him for more than long enough on other charges, such that it would have been a waste of time.
mannerheim 2y ago
He was in jail for running a darknet drug marketplace. Hiring a contract killer was a crime he was neither charged with nor convicted of.
- Aloisius 2y ago
  Ulbricht was indicted in federal court in Maryland on a single murder-for-hire charge. The case was dropped after NY conviction since he was sentencing to life, so there was little point in continuing. Clearly that was a mistake if a lack of an attempted murder conviction helped him get a pardon.
  - lupire 2y ago
    What would give you a hint that attempted murder conviction would prevent his pardon? Trump pardoned over a thousand attempted murdered already this week.
- meowface 2y ago
  The judge factored it into the sentencing, though. He likely did actually try to hire a contract killer - twice. In both cases he sincerely believed the murders were successfully committed, and he sent a lot of money to the assassins after being sent (doctored) "proof" of their killings. I think it's fair to say judges shouldn't factor non-charged allegations into sentencing, but I think he's at least morally culpable, here, and should at the very least be expected to now show public contrition for repeatedly trying to murder people drug kingpin-style. I doubt he will ever admit it, but now that he's free I still would like it. I don't care about people enabling drug sales but I do care about people with a God complex who feel entitled to end the lives of those they oppose (in one case because he thought someone stole from him, and another because he thought they would dox him).
  - busymom0 2y ago
    A judge and system who would give him 2 life sentences for this should not be trusted when he also factored in things which he wasn't charged and convicted of.
l0ng1nu5 2y ago
I haven't reviewed the info for a while but it was pretty clearly entrapment as I recall.
- macinjosh 2y ago
  Yes the FBI had root or admin access to the Silk Road system and could have very easily changed or otherwise affected logs/record IDs that the technical case rested on. Two of the FBI agents on the case were later punished for corruption on the case.
- mmooss 2y ago
  Didn't Ulbricht actually run the Silk Road? Did someone from the FBI persuade Ulbricht to do it?
  - jxi 2y ago
    I think they're talking about just the murder-for-hire. It may have just been undercover agents the whole time and no murders actually occurred.
    - verteu 2y ago
      Attempting to hire a hitman who turns out to be an FBI agent is still a crime, and likely not entrapment in the legal sense.
      - px43 2y ago
        It was entrapment because federal agents posing as crime bosses were threatening Ross that if he didn't hire the hitman there would be serious consequences. He was manipulated and forced into the position he was in.
        ttyprintk 2y ago
        What you see as manipulation, someone else might see as a user of the DPR account revealing his true nature > "I need his real-world identity, so I can threaten him with violence," DPR told RealLucyDrop. > "I don't know how I feel about that solution," said RealLucyDrop
UberFly 2y ago
Some info from a previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33045520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33045520
adrianmonk 2y ago
According to Wikipedia[1], he was convicted of charges related to hacking, narcotics, money laundering, and more. But during the trial, evidence was presented that he made murder-for-hire payments, the court found that he did by a preponderance of evidence, and the court took this into account when sentencing him. So, he wasn't convicted of it, but it is part of the reason he was sent to jail for a very long time. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht

hypeatei 2y ago

No, that charge was dropped. IIRC, it was on shaky ground and they were just trying to throw the book at him.

tzs 2y ago
The charge was dropped, but the court did hold a hearing on it when deciding on sentencing. They heard the evidence for and against and ruled by a preponderance of the evidence that he did in fact do it.
- beezle 2y ago
  Wonder if he can be charged with that now? Was there anything in the pardon related to this? AFAIK there is no time limit on bringing charges related to murder?
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  Then why would they drop the charge if they thought the evidence pointed to the fact he did it.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    'preponderance' is the clue, criminal is 'beyond all reasonable doubt', civil is preponderance. Ross was being charged under criminal law.
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      This. Evidence that isn't strong enough to criminally convict can be used for other purposes (e.g. sentencing, knowledge/intent, civil forfeiture, civil damages etc). (see OJ Simpson paying money damages for a crime he was acquitted of)
  - rsanek 2y ago
    this would be a criminal charge preponderance of the evidence wouldn't be enough to convict
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Sentencing phase
  - tzs 2y ago
    Separate courts. He was indicted and tried for all the non-murder stuff in a New York federal court. He was indicted separately in a Maryland federal court on a murder-for-hire charge. The New York court convicted him, and then considered the murder-for-hire allegations when determining his sentence. They found them true by a preponderance of the evidence and and that was a factor in his sentence to life without parole. He appealed, and the Second Circuit upheld the sentence. The prosecutors in Maryland then dropped the murder-for-hire charge because there was no point. They said this would allow them to direct their resources to other other cases where justice had not yet been served.
    - gigatexal 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - honestSysAdmin 2y ago
        The Silk Road run by Ross Ulbricht did not have assassins on it, nor did it have any human trafficking on it. I support your right to disagree with the pardon. But please don't recklessly post disinformation like that.
        Bud 2y ago
        [dead]
      - zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
        That's not true. It wasn't a free for all platform.
        gigatexal 2y ago
        Hmm did some research. Apparently it wasn’t just drugs and random stuff. I had always thought it was the 4chan of marketplaces. https://www.gawkerarchives.com/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imag-30818160 https://www.gawkerarchives.com/the-underground-website-where... Though an article by CBS (transcript is an interview) has this: “THE HUNT FOR DREAD PIRATE ROBERTS In 2011 there was a new bad guy in cyberspace behind the website Silk Road. He oversaw more than $200 million in illegal transactions on the dark web, involving the sale of drugs, weapons and illicit services such as computer hacking. Even murders for hire were discussed on the site.” “Milan Patel: We saw murder-for-hire postings, hacking-for-hire postings, which was, "hey, pay me two bitcoin, and I'll hack into your ex-wife or ex-husband's email account." … and I suspect people were using it because it made a lot of sense. It was totally anonymous. And you could never trace it back to the person who asked for it.” https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ross-ulbricht-dread-pirate-roberts-silk-road-fbi/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ross-ulbricht-dread-pirate-... It stands to reason that given criminals buying and selling drugs online that the adjacent work of hacking or even murder for hire would be sought or facilitated given the fact that folks on the platform thought they were anonymous as they were transacting in bitcoin. So someone should call the FBIs bluff and given this pardon either Ross himself or one of you — his fans — could go spin up a server and restart silk road. Trump’s basically saying it’s legal. As he’s got the power to enforce or not enforce the laws this pardon basically is saying start selling drugs online. Let your libertarian freak flag fly.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Possibly because he was already facing a long sentence and it wasn't worth pursuing that charge.
cbsmith 2y ago
It had a lot to do with the fact that they already had him for more than long enough on other charges, such that it would have been a waste of time.

mannerheim 2y ago

He was in jail for running a darknet drug marketplace. Hiring a contract killer was a crime he was neither charged with nor convicted of.

Aloisius 2y ago
Ulbricht was indicted in federal court in Maryland on a single murder-for-hire charge. The case was dropped after NY conviction since he was sentencing to life, so there was little point in continuing. Clearly that was a mistake if a lack of an attempted murder conviction helped him get a pardon.
- lupire 2y ago
  What would give you a hint that attempted murder conviction would prevent his pardon? Trump pardoned over a thousand attempted murdered already this week.
meowface 2y ago
The judge factored it into the sentencing, though. He likely did actually try to hire a contract killer - twice. In both cases he sincerely believed the murders were successfully committed, and he sent a lot of money to the assassins after being sent (doctored) "proof" of their killings. I think it's fair to say judges shouldn't factor non-charged allegations into sentencing, but I think he's at least morally culpable, here, and should at the very least be expected to now show public contrition for repeatedly trying to murder people drug kingpin-style. I doubt he will ever admit it, but now that he's free I still would like it. I don't care about people enabling drug sales but I do care about people with a God complex who feel entitled to end the lives of those they oppose (in one case because he thought someone stole from him, and another because he thought they would dox him).
- busymom0 2y ago
  A judge and system who would give him 2 life sentences for this should not be trusted when he also factored in things which he wasn't charged and convicted of.

l0ng1nu5 2y ago

I haven't reviewed the info for a while but it was pretty clearly entrapment as I recall.

macinjosh 2y ago
Yes the FBI had root or admin access to the Silk Road system and could have very easily changed or otherwise affected logs/record IDs that the technical case rested on. Two of the FBI agents on the case were later punished for corruption on the case.
mmooss 2y ago
Didn't Ulbricht actually run the Silk Road? Did someone from the FBI persuade Ulbricht to do it?
- jxi 2y ago
  I think they're talking about just the murder-for-hire. It may have just been undercover agents the whole time and no murders actually occurred.
  - verteu 2y ago
    Attempting to hire a hitman who turns out to be an FBI agent is still a crime, and likely not entrapment in the legal sense.
    - px43 2y ago
      It was entrapment because federal agents posing as crime bosses were threatening Ross that if he didn't hire the hitman there would be serious consequences. He was manipulated and forced into the position he was in.
      - ttyprintk 2y ago
        What you see as manipulation, someone else might see as a user of the DPR account revealing his true nature > "I need his real-world identity, so I can threaten him with violence," DPR told RealLucyDrop. > "I don't know how I feel about that solution," said RealLucyDrop

UberFly 2y ago

Some info from a previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33045520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33045520

adrianmonk 2y ago

According to Wikipedia[1], he was convicted of charges related to hacking, narcotics, money laundering, and more. But during the trial, evidence was presented that he made murder-for-hire payments, the court found that he did by a preponderance of evidence, and the court took this into account when sentencing him. So, he wasn't convicted of it, but it is part of the reason he was sent to jail for a very long time. --- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht