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What is financially viable independent of politics? What doesn't have subsidies? Did the petroleum industry pay for the millions that were lead poisoned? Do the

What is financially viable independent of politics? What doesn't have subsidies? Did the petroleum industry pay for the millions that were lead poisoned? Do they pay for the environmental damage caused by climate change? Those are also subsidies.

Our_Benefactors 2y ago
This is a non-answer that doubles as a tacit admission that the cost/benefit ratio for wind power is terrible (it is)
- sarlalian 2y ago
  Is that still true if the costs of oil/gas stop being socialized? Basically the people pay for oil cleanups, for air polution, etc, the cost is still there it's just not currently born by the oil companies. Also, how do the costs stack up if you drop all oil subsidies?
  - Our_Benefactors 2y ago
    If the math is arbitrary enough then yes wind power is the 100% ideal perfect energy source.
    - geysersam 2y ago
      At least it doesn't disrupt the gulf stream
- geysersam 2y ago
  I don't know much about wind power economics so you should certainly not take my "tacit" word for it.
- 93po 2y ago
  It's saying that society pays a price for fossil fuel emissions, in terms of damage to our climate and our health. Millions of people die every year from fossil fuel emissions. If we attach a price to that death and destruction, and apply that as a cost towards fossil fuels, it makes the financial subsidies of wind and solar insignificant.
  - Our_Benefactors 2y ago
    > Millions of people die every year from fossil fuel emissions Citation needed. “Millions a year” is undoubtedly using some flimsy justification for the figure.
    - 93po 2y ago
      nope https://hsph.harvard.edu/climate-health-c-change/news/fossil-fuel-air-pollution-responsible-for-1-in-5-deaths-worldwide/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/climate-health-c-change/news/fossil... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38030155/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38030155/ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/29/air-pollution-from-fossil-fuels-kills-5-million-people-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/29/air-poll... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1819989116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1819989116 https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-077784 https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-077784 there is tons of data to support this, and it's a widely accepted reality
      - Our_Benefactors 2y ago
        These all seem to reference the same model, the actual studies are all pay walled, and there’s no way to get access to the model. Priesthood vibes

Our_Benefactors 2y ago

This is a non-answer that doubles as a tacit admission that the cost/benefit ratio for wind power is terrible (it is)

sarlalian 2y ago
Is that still true if the costs of oil/gas stop being socialized? Basically the people pay for oil cleanups, for air polution, etc, the cost is still there it's just not currently born by the oil companies. Also, how do the costs stack up if you drop all oil subsidies?
- Our_Benefactors 2y ago
  If the math is arbitrary enough then yes wind power is the 100% ideal perfect energy source.
  - geysersam 2y ago
    At least it doesn't disrupt the gulf stream
geysersam 2y ago
I don't know much about wind power economics so you should certainly not take my "tacit" word for it.
93po 2y ago
It's saying that society pays a price for fossil fuel emissions, in terms of damage to our climate and our health. Millions of people die every year from fossil fuel emissions. If we attach a price to that death and destruction, and apply that as a cost towards fossil fuels, it makes the financial subsidies of wind and solar insignificant.
- Our_Benefactors 2y ago
  > Millions of people die every year from fossil fuel emissions Citation needed. “Millions a year” is undoubtedly using some flimsy justification for the figure.
  - 93po 2y ago
    nope https://hsph.harvard.edu/climate-health-c-change/news/fossil-fuel-air-pollution-responsible-for-1-in-5-deaths-worldwide/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/climate-health-c-change/news/fossil... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38030155/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38030155/ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/29/air-pollution-from-fossil-fuels-kills-5-million-people-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/29/air-poll... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1819989116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1819989116 https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-077784 https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-077784 there is tons of data to support this, and it's a widely accepted reality
    - Our_Benefactors 2y ago
      These all seem to reference the same model, the actual studies are all pay walled, and there’s no way to get access to the model. Priesthood vibes