4 ms·

Well, to be fair, every government uses or at least has plans for these kind of tactics. KGB/FSB, Mossad, MI6, DGSE, otehr variations of a DSS agency - you've g

Well, to be fair, every government uses or at least has plans for these kind of tactics. KGB/FSB, Mossad, MI6, DGSE, otehr variations of a DSS agency - you've got to be very naive to believe they don't conduct covert operations and planned assassinations themselves or through third parties. It's only shocking when it comes to light (or maybe because it comes to light, when it shouldn't?)...

knowtheory 14y ago
There is an Epic Level difference between a government agency who is ultimately responsible for their conduct to their citizens, one way or another having a secret assassination program, and a government paying a 3rd party to carry out assassinations. One particular way in which this is different, is that the CIA can't go out and decide that it (as an organization) wants to freelance for other nations or organizations. Blackwater, once set up as a paramilitary organization who specializes in covert assassinations... who's to say they're not moonlighting for Zetas or the Russian mob? What's the ethical block stopping them? They're already secretly killing people for money.
- Zakharov 14y ago
  They're not moonlighting for the Zetas or the Russian mob because if they were, they'd lose billions of dollars of CIA money.
  - Someone 14y ago
    If you were the government looking to hire a third party to do this kind of things for you, wouldn't you prefer someone with experience? Yes, you could only hire people that went through your own training program, but hiring ones that went through other training programs would give more plausible deniability. It also could be an excellent Way to sow seeds of distrust between otherwise friendly parties.
  - knowtheory 14y ago
    Really. And do you think the CIA is auditing Blackwater's books, and tracking all of its operatives? Or are we just taking their word for it?
  - Spooky23 14y ago
    Really? Sounds like a great opportunity to blackmail the CIA to me. One of the disadvantages of committing illegal and morally questionable acts is that you become vulnerable to the consequences of the disclosure of those acts.
  - runjake 14y ago
    Count the number of shell corporations Academi (formerly Blackwater) has. I lost count at about 100 of them, and I'm sure there's many, many more. Now, track what each shell corp does and who their customers are. I hope you have a vast team dedicated to sorting that out. Academi is staffed by experienced, former CIA personnel who know the ins and outs of the trade. And if you further need convincing, look at Air America and South American CIA operations where the CIA didn't even know what was going on under their OWN chain of command. The CIA is (mostly) not some mystical, all-seeing spy organization. They suffer the same problems as any company/agency of their size. Bureaucracy, and especially PHBs.
freshhawk 14y ago
Half true, not every government and not these kinds of tactics. The point is that when you move from dirty intelligence work to hiring mercenaries to perform large scale purges and intentionally make them unaccountable in order to shield yourself from war crime prosecution ... that's a level normally reserved for totalitarian states or exceptionally corrupt states. Since the 70's and 80's these types of organizations have normally been called "death squads", most people have heard that term in connection to the violence in central and south america during that time. You would have to be exceptionally cynical about the state of US democracy to not be a little shocked by the scale of this.
- Zakharov 14y ago
  These aren't "large scale purges" or "death mobs", they're targeted assassinations. Blackwater, villainous as they may be, aren't killing indiscriminately to cause fear.
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    Yet. As with many things, the slippery slope isn't apparent until you've started the slide.
  - freshhawk 14y ago
    "deaths squads", and it's the exact definition of death squad. The fact that it fits a definition of a word isn't important anyway. The facts are. Blackwater didn't get that "villainous" reputation by being particularily targeted. I guess you could argue that the frequently reported "indiscriminate" firing was a different Blackwater/Xe/Acedemi department and you might be totally right. And I guess that depends on when the number of extrajudicial killings by a funded group kept unaccountable specifically to avoid prosecution reaches a level that you would call "large scale". No one seems to know the scale, but it's certainly beyond what any historian is going to call "targeted assassinations" in the future.

knowtheory 14y ago

There is an Epic Level difference between a government agency who is ultimately responsible for their conduct to their citizens, one way or another having a secret assassination program, and a government paying a 3rd party to carry out assassinations. One particular way in which this is different, is that the CIA can't go out and decide that it (as an organization) wants to freelance for other nations or organizations. Blackwater, once set up as a paramilitary organization who specializes in covert assassinations... who's to say they're not moonlighting for Zetas or the Russian mob? What's the ethical block stopping them? They're already secretly killing people for money.

Zakharov 14y ago
They're not moonlighting for the Zetas or the Russian mob because if they were, they'd lose billions of dollars of CIA money.
- Someone 14y ago
  If you were the government looking to hire a third party to do this kind of things for you, wouldn't you prefer someone with experience? Yes, you could only hire people that went through your own training program, but hiring ones that went through other training programs would give more plausible deniability. It also could be an excellent Way to sow seeds of distrust between otherwise friendly parties.
- knowtheory 14y ago
  Really. And do you think the CIA is auditing Blackwater's books, and tracking all of its operatives? Or are we just taking their word for it?
- Spooky23 14y ago
  Really? Sounds like a great opportunity to blackmail the CIA to me. One of the disadvantages of committing illegal and morally questionable acts is that you become vulnerable to the consequences of the disclosure of those acts.
- runjake 14y ago
  Count the number of shell corporations Academi (formerly Blackwater) has. I lost count at about 100 of them, and I'm sure there's many, many more. Now, track what each shell corp does and who their customers are. I hope you have a vast team dedicated to sorting that out. Academi is staffed by experienced, former CIA personnel who know the ins and outs of the trade. And if you further need convincing, look at Air America and South American CIA operations where the CIA didn't even know what was going on under their OWN chain of command. The CIA is (mostly) not some mystical, all-seeing spy organization. They suffer the same problems as any company/agency of their size. Bureaucracy, and especially PHBs.

freshhawk 14y ago

Half true, not every government and not these kinds of tactics. The point is that when you move from dirty intelligence work to hiring mercenaries to perform large scale purges and intentionally make them unaccountable in order to shield yourself from war crime prosecution ... that's a level normally reserved for totalitarian states or exceptionally corrupt states. Since the 70's and 80's these types of organizations have normally been called "death squads", most people have heard that term in connection to the violence in central and south america during that time. You would have to be exceptionally cynical about the state of US democracy to not be a little shocked by the scale of this.

Zakharov 14y ago
These aren't "large scale purges" or "death mobs", they're targeted assassinations. Blackwater, villainous as they may be, aren't killing indiscriminately to cause fear.
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  Yet. As with many things, the slippery slope isn't apparent until you've started the slide.
- freshhawk 14y ago
  "deaths squads", and it's the exact definition of death squad. The fact that it fits a definition of a word isn't important anyway. The facts are. Blackwater didn't get that "villainous" reputation by being particularily targeted. I guess you could argue that the frequently reported "indiscriminate" firing was a different Blackwater/Xe/Acedemi department and you might be totally right. And I guess that depends on when the number of extrajudicial killings by a funded group kept unaccountable specifically to avoid prosecution reaches a level that you would call "large scale". No one seems to know the scale, but it's certainly beyond what any historian is going to call "targeted assassinations" in the future.