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That's murky and it's not enforced. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. If you want some more examples: Voting, Jury Service, Employmen

That's murky and it's not enforced. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. If you want some more examples: Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses.

anigbrowl 2y ago
It's not murky, I just picked the most official source. There's no real enforcement of selective service, except that if you don't sign up for it likely bars from subsequent employment by the Federal government unless you can get a waiver. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. We haven't had a draft since the 1970s. It's unclear how many draftees were immigrants back then (and the legal definitions around immigration have changed in the meantime) but historically conscription of immigrants has been the norm, not the exception. Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses. These seem like things from which undocumented immigrants are excluded (by law!), not immunized. Why you think this is an argument in favor of your legal theory is beyond me.
- willmadden 2y ago
  The correct legal term is "illegal aliens" not "undocumented immigrants". My argument is that the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" may be interpreted to mean that individuals must be under the complete, allegiance-owing jurisdiction of the United States, and because they may not be for a host of reasons, the SCOTUS may reevaluate US v Wong Kim Ark and reinterpret the 14th amendment. There's also this 1866 Congressional document discussing the 14th after it was passed detailing "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It reads "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of embassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but it will include every other class of persons." https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/1 https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/... There's a very strong case here.

That's murky and it's not enforced. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. If you want some more examples: Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses.

anigbrowl 2y ago

It's not murky, I just picked the most official source. There's no real enforcement of selective service, except that if you don't sign up for it likely bars from subsequent employment by the Federal government unless you can get a waiver. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. We haven't had a draft since the 1970s. It's unclear how many draftees were immigrants back then (and the legal definitions around immigration have changed in the meantime) but historically conscription of immigrants has been the norm, not the exception. Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses. These seem like things from which undocumented immigrants are excluded (by law!), not immunized. Why you think this is an argument in favor of your legal theory is beyond me.

willmadden 2y ago
The correct legal term is "illegal aliens" not "undocumented immigrants". My argument is that the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" may be interpreted to mean that individuals must be under the complete, allegiance-owing jurisdiction of the United States, and because they may not be for a host of reasons, the SCOTUS may reevaluate US v Wong Kim Ark and reinterpret the 14th amendment. There's also this 1866 Congressional document discussing the 14th after it was passed detailing "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It reads "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of embassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but it will include every other class of persons." https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/1 https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/... There's a very strong case here.