3 ms·

The RCTs that validate your assertion (or mine) when comparing reparative therapy and affirmation do not exist. All that we have to rely on now is the overwhelm

The RCTs that validate your assertion (or mine) when comparing reparative therapy and affirmation do not exist. All that we have to rely on now is the overwhelming consensus among medical and mental health professionals, and that consensus appears to exist among major reputable bodies worldwide, and is based on their many decades of collective clinical experience and research. If medical bodies are changing guidelines without basing on it solid studies and evidence, then those medical bodies should be considered compromised and corrupt. Especially when that treatments involving treatments that will permanently sterilize minors. If they are not following the evidence, then they are not "experts" or "scientists" they are ideological fanatics wearing the skin-suit of science. In following the transgender issue, what I have noticed is that doctors who take the common sense approach, "Your child has a penis, he is a boy, you need to reinforce that and he will get over it" don't make any money. They do not open "gender identity clinics" because there is no money in dispensing common sense. The doctors who tell parents to "let the child explore their gender" and "let's help solidify their transgender identity" prolong the problem and create a recurring revenue stream for themselves. Then, because these doctors are the "head of a gender identity clinic serving thousands of children" these same doctors are the one's who are put in charge of writing the standard of care and the guidelines. It is totally perverse set of incentives. I'd recommend reading up on how the sausage is made in coming up with the "consensus": https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/gender-medicines-citation-cartel https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/gender-medicines-citatio... https://www.nysun.com/article/leaked-files-from-influential-transgender-medicine-group-cause-uproar-could-imperil-liberal-efforts-to-undo-state-bans-on-gender-transition-treatments-for-children?lctg=1430021928&recognized_email=editors-group%40nysun.com&newsletter-access https://www.nysun.com/article/leaked-files-from-influential-... Can you elaborate on what you mean by "other cases" that are directly comparable with gender dysphoria, and can you find some studies that support the effectiveness of this approach? If someone was too short, or too tall, or thought they were black (even though they were unambiguously white), You appear to start from your biology and work backwards, as if the mind does not exist. No, I don't believe that mind and body exist as wholly separate entities. This is very obvious in the case of sex where the hormones emitted by my testicles very clearly have all kinds of effects on my mind. > It's actually really difficult for me to understand how a person's fundamental well-being is intrinsically and immalleably tied to names and clothing. > > > What you are saying here is that "this is my experience and I do not understand why everyone else does not have the same experience". No, what I'm saying it is difficult to even see how an immalleabile tie between well-being and wearing a dress could have possibly evolved, when clothing has been so different throughout human history and people are thus obviously very flexible in the type of clothes they can wear. What you are saying here is that "this is my experience and I do not understand why everyone else does not have the same experience". Do you not see a problem with that? Until a mind reading machine exists, that is all that any of us can do. I have read various accounts of trans-people's experiences and I am not convinced that there is some immalleable preference in their mind that makes them female internally. Certainly some men have a very strong desire to act out the role of female, but that is different there actually being female in the brain. But because of the way various medical guidelines works, and the law works, there is incentive to lie about this.

brandon272 2y ago
I am well aware of the current concerns around the incentives that exist in the medical industry when it comes to the treatment of gender dysphoric people. Some of it we should absolutely be concerned about, particularly when it comes to treatment of children. Where the current public discourse on these issues goes off the rails is that we conclude that, because these concerns around improper incentives and improper treatment exists, or because there are some issues around social influence of children on social media, that "gender dysphoria" broadly is either not real or not a legitimate problem that people deal with. > If someone was too short, or too tall, or thought they were black (even though they were unambiguously white) If someone was 5'8" and underwent leg-lengthening therapy to become 6'1", would we not call that person "tall", or would we jump through strange mental hoops to justify antagonizing them based on their genetic makeup? > Until a mind reading machine exists Again, the problem here is that you are concluding that unless you can rationalize and validate someone else's thought process or mental condition through the lens of your own experience, then their experience is irrelevant to you, not real, and that they are worthy of mockery and derision instead of respect and consideration. We don't need a mind reading machine to understand what gender dysphoria is, because gender dysphoric people tell us what they are thinking and feeling, not to mention they tend to know what will reduce their feelings of dysphoria.
- chlodwig 2y ago
  We don't need a mind reading machine to understand what gender dysphoria is, because gender dysphoric people tell us what they are thinking and feeling It's not this simple. For one, lots of people are all kinds of confused. There are people who think they are dysphoric, transition, then realize they totally messed up. There are people who say, "I went through a period when I was a kid where I was a tom-boy or told my parents I was the other sex -- thank goodness this kind of ideology wasn't around then because I could have been trannsed. I'm perfectly happy in my biological sex right now." If you read a lot of stories they aren't necessarily "dysphoric" they just think it will benefit them someway to transition, in the same way a weightlifter who goes on steroids is not "dysphoric" about his body, he just might think he is happier to be muscled up. And we also have people who later admit that they lied about the nature gender identity in order to get sex change drugs and trans people who admit there is substantial political pressure to make their personal testimonials about gender identity conform to a certain script: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trans-rights-biological-sex-gender-judith-butler.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trans-rights-biologi... https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-30/essays/on-liking-women/ https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-30/essays/on-liking-women/ Because we do not actually have the technology to turn a man into a female (or vice versa), I think the most honest and best course is to tell that person, "Sorry, you are not a woman, and the surgery you are asking for will not actually get you want you want. Cross-dressing and wearing lipstick does not make you a woman. But if you learn to accept who you are, you can live a happy life." To be convinced that this common sense approach is not the best approach, I would need very strong evidence -- at minimum multiple randomized controlled trials by honest researchers.

brandon272 2y ago

I am well aware of the current concerns around the incentives that exist in the medical industry when it comes to the treatment of gender dysphoric people. Some of it we should absolutely be concerned about, particularly when it comes to treatment of children. Where the current public discourse on these issues goes off the rails is that we conclude that, because these concerns around improper incentives and improper treatment exists, or because there are some issues around social influence of children on social media, that "gender dysphoria" broadly is either not real or not a legitimate problem that people deal with. > If someone was too short, or too tall, or thought they were black (even though they were unambiguously white) If someone was 5'8" and underwent leg-lengthening therapy to become 6'1", would we not call that person "tall", or would we jump through strange mental hoops to justify antagonizing them based on their genetic makeup? > Until a mind reading machine exists Again, the problem here is that you are concluding that unless you can rationalize and validate someone else's thought process or mental condition through the lens of your own experience, then their experience is irrelevant to you, not real, and that they are worthy of mockery and derision instead of respect and consideration. We don't need a mind reading machine to understand what gender dysphoria is, because gender dysphoric people tell us what they are thinking and feeling, not to mention they tend to know what will reduce their feelings of dysphoria.

chlodwig 2y ago
We don't need a mind reading machine to understand what gender dysphoria is, because gender dysphoric people tell us what they are thinking and feeling It's not this simple. For one, lots of people are all kinds of confused. There are people who think they are dysphoric, transition, then realize they totally messed up. There are people who say, "I went through a period when I was a kid where I was a tom-boy or told my parents I was the other sex -- thank goodness this kind of ideology wasn't around then because I could have been trannsed. I'm perfectly happy in my biological sex right now." If you read a lot of stories they aren't necessarily "dysphoric" they just think it will benefit them someway to transition, in the same way a weightlifter who goes on steroids is not "dysphoric" about his body, he just might think he is happier to be muscled up. And we also have people who later admit that they lied about the nature gender identity in order to get sex change drugs and trans people who admit there is substantial political pressure to make their personal testimonials about gender identity conform to a certain script: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trans-rights-biological-sex-gender-judith-butler.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trans-rights-biologi... https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-30/essays/on-liking-women/ https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-30/essays/on-liking-women/ Because we do not actually have the technology to turn a man into a female (or vice versa), I think the most honest and best course is to tell that person, "Sorry, you are not a woman, and the surgery you are asking for will not actually get you want you want. Cross-dressing and wearing lipstick does not make you a woman. But if you learn to accept who you are, you can live a happy life." To be convinced that this common sense approach is not the best approach, I would need very strong evidence -- at minimum multiple randomized controlled trials by honest researchers.