4 ms·

I am currently in a nightmare scenario at a new job. I just finished building their website, and it got flagged as a phishing website by Google Safebrowsing bec

by bogzz 2y ago

I am currently in a nightmare scenario at a new job. I just finished building their website, and it got flagged as a phishing website by Google Safebrowsing because Google seems to think that our analytics subdomain which is a self-hosted instance of Umami Analytics is a phishing attempt. I requested a review once, they removed the flag. It came back a couple of days ago. I then had to move Umami to its own domain because I couldn't risk this ever happening again (visitors to our root domain were also getting the huge red warning, and our business was coming off as a scam). Then they flagged the new domain as well. They've removed it again at my request, but I am just counting down the days until it happens again. There is no way for me to get through to a human to talk about why this is happening.

noja 2y ago
Clearly you should move to google’s analytics product.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Almost certainly the correct inference about why this is happening.
mystified5016 2y ago
Have legal send Google a C&D and shoot an email to the FTC about anticompetitive behavior. That's how you get a human involved.
- godelski 2y ago
  Even if this works, it represents a failure in the system that needs to be fixed. (I assume you're just trying to help the parent solve their problem so I'm not trying to be dismissive of your comment)
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    I am not sure this aphorism is helping in any way though? of course system needs to be fixed, there are about 829 things google/bigtech-wise that needs to be fixed but of course they won't be fixed. the only course of action in vast majority of cases like this is legal action
    - altairprime 2y ago
      California’s labor board could state that anyone impacted by algorithmic decisions has the right to review the algorithm used, and that all algorithms used must be deterministic and diagrammable. If clearly stated, “flip a coin” or “choose one at random” is fine, but “trained AI network” is not. This would shine light on algorithms used at Uber, DoorDash, Amazon, Microsoft, Workday (based in Oakland). Anyone with a worker in California whose work is subject to algorithmic intervention would have the right to request the source code to all algorithms impacting their gig, temporary, or permanent employment. I cannot imagine a more frightening regulatory path for California tech. They would spend a billion dollars trying to stop it.
      - godelski 2y ago
        > all algorithms used must be deterministic Be careful with your choice of wording here. There are many non-{AI,ML} algorithms that are not deterministic. Hell, we don't even have to go to Turing or talk about Busy Beaver. What about encryption? We want to inject noise here and want that noise to be as random and indeterminable as possible. There are also many optimization algorithms that require random processes. This can even include things like finding the area under a curve because it may be faster to use Monte Carlo Integration. You might not even be able to do it otherwise. > and diagrammable An ANN is certainly diagrammable. I understand the intent of your words and even agree with it. I think openness and transparency are critical. But because I care and agree I want to make sure we recognize how difficult that the wording is. Because it is often easy to implement a solution that creates a bigger problem than the thing we sought to solve. Personally, I'd love to see that things become "Software Available." I mean if it was a requirement for everyone, then it is much easier to "prove" when code is cloned. Of course, this is easier said than done since there's many "many ways to skin a cat" but in essence, this is not too dissimilar from physical manufacturing. It's really hard to keep secrets in hardware. Plus, there's benefits like you can fix your fucking tractor when it breaks down. Or fix a car even if it is half a century old. I do expect if this would become reality that it'd need a lot more nuance and my own critique applies, but I just wanted to put it out there (in part, to get that critique).
snailmailstare 2y ago
They've clearly implemented prejustice, but not correctly. Find that class action lawyer and go fishing!

by bogzz 2y ago

noja 2y ago

Clearly you should move to google’s analytics product.

anigbrowl 2y ago
Almost certainly the correct inference about why this is happening.

mystified5016 2y ago

Have legal send Google a C&D and shoot an email to the FTC about anticompetitive behavior. That's how you get a human involved.

godelski 2y ago
Even if this works, it represents a failure in the system that needs to be fixed. (I assume you're just trying to help the parent solve their problem so I'm not trying to be dismissive of your comment)
- bdangubic 2y ago
  I am not sure this aphorism is helping in any way though? of course system needs to be fixed, there are about 829 things google/bigtech-wise that needs to be fixed but of course they won't be fixed. the only course of action in vast majority of cases like this is legal action
  - altairprime 2y ago
    California’s labor board could state that anyone impacted by algorithmic decisions has the right to review the algorithm used, and that all algorithms used must be deterministic and diagrammable. If clearly stated, “flip a coin” or “choose one at random” is fine, but “trained AI network” is not. This would shine light on algorithms used at Uber, DoorDash, Amazon, Microsoft, Workday (based in Oakland). Anyone with a worker in California whose work is subject to algorithmic intervention would have the right to request the source code to all algorithms impacting their gig, temporary, or permanent employment. I cannot imagine a more frightening regulatory path for California tech. They would spend a billion dollars trying to stop it.
    - godelski 2y ago
      > all algorithms used must be deterministic Be careful with your choice of wording here. There are many non-{AI,ML} algorithms that are not deterministic. Hell, we don't even have to go to Turing or talk about Busy Beaver. What about encryption? We want to inject noise here and want that noise to be as random and indeterminable as possible. There are also many optimization algorithms that require random processes. This can even include things like finding the area under a curve because it may be faster to use Monte Carlo Integration. You might not even be able to do it otherwise. > and diagrammable An ANN is certainly diagrammable. I understand the intent of your words and even agree with it. I think openness and transparency are critical. But because I care and agree I want to make sure we recognize how difficult that the wording is. Because it is often easy to implement a solution that creates a bigger problem than the thing we sought to solve. Personally, I'd love to see that things become "Software Available." I mean if it was a requirement for everyone, then it is much easier to "prove" when code is cloned. Of course, this is easier said than done since there's many "many ways to skin a cat" but in essence, this is not too dissimilar from physical manufacturing. It's really hard to keep secrets in hardware. Plus, there's benefits like you can fix your fucking tractor when it breaks down. Or fix a car even if it is half a century old. I do expect if this would become reality that it'd need a lot more nuance and my own critique applies, but I just wanted to put it out there (in part, to get that critique).

snailmailstare 2y ago

They've clearly implemented prejustice, but not correctly. Find that class action lawyer and go fishing!