5 ms·

There are two aspects to this from my pov. And I think it might be controversial. When i have a question about any topic, and I ask Chatgpt, i usually chat abo

There are two aspects to this from my pov. And I think it might be controversial. When i have a question about any topic, and I ask Chatgpt, i usually chat about more things, coming up with questions based on the answer, and mostly stupid questions. I feel like I am taking in the information, analyzing, and then diving deeper because I am curious. This is based on how I learn about stuff. I know i need to check a few things, and that it's not fully accurate, but the conversation flows in a direction I like. compared this to researching on the internet, there are some good aspects, but more often than not, I end up reading an opinionated post by someone (no matter the topic, if you go deep enough, you will land on an opinionated factual telling). That feels like someone decided what questions are important, what angles we need to look at, and what the conclusion should be. Yes, it is educational, but I am always left with lingering questions. The difference is curiosity. If people are curious about a topic, they will learn. If not, they are happy with the answer. And that is not laziness. You cannot be curious about everything.

engineer_22 2y ago
Like an indefatigable, kindly professor.
regentbowerbird 2y ago
> compared this to researching on the internet, there are some good aspects, but more often than not, I end up reading an opinionated post by someone (no matter the topic, if you go deep enough, you will land on an opinionated factual telling). ChatGPT is in fact opinionated, it has numerous political positions ("biases") and holds some subjects taboo. The difference is that a single actor chooses the political opinions of the model that goes on to interact with many more people than a single opinion piece might.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  Fine. But it would never occur to me to try to form political opinions using chatgpt.
  - snapcaster 2y ago
    I don't think that's modeling the risk correctly. In my mind the risk is that ChatGPT's creators are able to influence your political opinions _without_ you seeking that out
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      I honestly don't see how. I haven't ever asked a question that implicates politics. This is just not what I use it for. I understand the concern about this risk in general. I'm just making a personal observation that this isn't how I use these tools.
- immibis 2y ago
  An example (over 1 year old): https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/17dmevt/chatgpt_justice_is_a_fundamental_principle_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/17dmev...
- ankit219 2y ago
  Yes that is true. Though that can be subsumed if you notice it, and ask the model to ignore those biases. (an extreme example would be opposition prep for a debate). I am not interested in politics and other related issues anyway.
- lazybreather 2y ago
  Political searches I assume would be very very minor percentage of real learning. Even in such cases, I would rather rely on a good LLMs response than scrounging websites of mainstream media or blogs etc. For an objective response, reading through opinionated articles and forming my opinion is an absolute waste of time. I'd want the truth as accurately as possible. Plus people don't generally change political opinions based what they read. They read stuff aligning with their side.
  - magicalist 2y ago
    > For an objective response, reading through opinionated articles and forming my opinion is an absolute waste of time If the sources are all opinionated articles, per GP, that's what the LLM is going to base its "objective response" on. That's literally all it has as sensory input.
sanderjd 2y ago
I really think the ability to ask questions entirely free from all judgment is an under-emphasized aspect of the power of these tools. Yes, some people are intellectually secure enough to ask the "dumb" questions of other humans, but most people are not, especially to an audience of strangers. I don't think I ever once asked a question on Stack Overflow, because it was easy to see how the question I worried might be dumb might be treated by the community there. But I ask all sorts of dumb questions of these models, with nary a concern about being judged. I love that aspect of it.
- redcobra762 2y ago
  The tool is absolutely biased, what makes you think it wouldn’t be?
  - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
    This guy is obviously unfamiliar with Tay lol.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    My comment doesn't say anything about bias...
- henriquemaia 2y ago
  That's a subtle, yet important point. Putting themselves out there is not easy for some. LLMs can take that pressure away. The 'but' in that lies with how much freedom is given to the LLM. If constrained, its refusal to answer may become a somewhat triggering possibility.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    I think this "refusal to answer" thing is so overblown. I have been using this technology every day for over two years now and have not one single time run into this.
    - 2y ago
YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
Remember that ChatGPT can only give you information that a) it has found on the web and b) that it has made up itself on the spot. It certainly can't get up and go to the library to read a forgotten source not cited on Wikipedia, say. So when you have a "curious" debate with ChatGPT what you're really doing is searching the internet through a filter, guided by your own and ChatGPT's biases about the subject, but still and always based on whatever you would have found by researching stuff on the internet. You're still on the internet. It may feel like you've finally escaped but you haven't. The internet can now speak to you when you ask it, but it's still the internet.

engineer_22 2y ago

Like an indefatigable, kindly professor.

regentbowerbird 2y ago

> compared this to researching on the internet, there are some good aspects, but more often than not, I end up reading an opinionated post by someone (no matter the topic, if you go deep enough, you will land on an opinionated factual telling). ChatGPT is in fact opinionated, it has numerous political positions ("biases") and holds some subjects taboo. The difference is that a single actor chooses the political opinions of the model that goes on to interact with many more people than a single opinion piece might.

sanderjd 2y ago
Fine. But it would never occur to me to try to form political opinions using chatgpt.
- snapcaster 2y ago
  I don't think that's modeling the risk correctly. In my mind the risk is that ChatGPT's creators are able to influence your political opinions _without_ you seeking that out
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    I honestly don't see how. I haven't ever asked a question that implicates politics. This is just not what I use it for. I understand the concern about this risk in general. I'm just making a personal observation that this isn't how I use these tools.
immibis 2y ago
An example (over 1 year old): https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/17dmevt/chatgpt_justice_is_a_fundamental_principle_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/17dmev...
ankit219 2y ago
Yes that is true. Though that can be subsumed if you notice it, and ask the model to ignore those biases. (an extreme example would be opposition prep for a debate). I am not interested in politics and other related issues anyway.
lazybreather 2y ago
Political searches I assume would be very very minor percentage of real learning. Even in such cases, I would rather rely on a good LLMs response than scrounging websites of mainstream media or blogs etc. For an objective response, reading through opinionated articles and forming my opinion is an absolute waste of time. I'd want the truth as accurately as possible. Plus people don't generally change political opinions based what they read. They read stuff aligning with their side.
- magicalist 2y ago
  > For an objective response, reading through opinionated articles and forming my opinion is an absolute waste of time If the sources are all opinionated articles, per GP, that's what the LLM is going to base its "objective response" on. That's literally all it has as sensory input.

sanderjd 2y ago

I really think the ability to ask questions entirely free from all judgment is an under-emphasized aspect of the power of these tools. Yes, some people are intellectually secure enough to ask the "dumb" questions of other humans, but most people are not, especially to an audience of strangers. I don't think I ever once asked a question on Stack Overflow, because it was easy to see how the question I worried might be dumb might be treated by the community there. But I ask all sorts of dumb questions of these models, with nary a concern about being judged. I love that aspect of it.

redcobra762 2y ago
The tool is absolutely biased, what makes you think it wouldn’t be?
- MarcelOlsz 2y ago
  This guy is obviously unfamiliar with Tay lol.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  My comment doesn't say anything about bias...
henriquemaia 2y ago
That's a subtle, yet important point. Putting themselves out there is not easy for some. LLMs can take that pressure away. The 'but' in that lies with how much freedom is given to the LLM. If constrained, its refusal to answer may become a somewhat triggering possibility.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  I think this "refusal to answer" thing is so overblown. I have been using this technology every day for over two years now and have not one single time run into this.
  - 2y ago

YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago

Remember that ChatGPT can only give you information that a) it has found on the web and b) that it has made up itself on the spot. It certainly can't get up and go to the library to read a forgotten source not cited on Wikipedia, say. So when you have a "curious" debate with ChatGPT what you're really doing is searching the internet through a filter, guided by your own and ChatGPT's biases about the subject, but still and always based on whatever you would have found by researching stuff on the internet. You're still on the internet. It may feel like you've finally escaped but you haven't. The internet can now speak to you when you ask it, but it's still the internet.