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Unionize. Collective action is the only way to stand up to Uber and co.

flerchin 2y ago
The critical industry of McDonald's delivery will never pay a living wage. There's not enough value. Folks will have to self-select out.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  McD’s has doubled prices with rising profits
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    And it gets those without having to pay drivers (and technically even workers in most McDonalds’ restaurants since they are franchised), so why would they start? Delivery and final assembly of food is not McDonald’s’ business.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      They would start if workers organized against them. I'm responding to the notion that there's not enough value on the table for collective action
    - titanomachy 2y ago
      "final assembly of food"? I haven't eaten McDonald's in a while, but from what I remember the food arrived fully assembled.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        McDonald’s sells their marketing and logistics, and rents real estate, to franchisors. The franchisors’ business is the one that employs people who do final assembly of the food. The franchisors’ profits and profit margins are nowhere near McDonalds’.
  - flerchin 2y ago
    That's true, but the delivery people do not work for McD's. They do not legally work for the delivery companies (although practically they do). People that pay for delivery will not pay very much for delivery, generally less than minimum wage. They'll instead get the food themselves.
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    McD's is a franchise in the US. Franchisees set prices.
    - edbrown23 2y ago
      I don't know how this actually works, but this can't _always_ be the case if they run national ad campaigns [1] for $5 meal deals, right? Unless they're baking a lot into "pricing and participation may vary" [1] https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu/5-dollar-meals.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu/5-dollar-meals....
      - Aloisius 2y ago
        If you scroll down, in small text you'll see: *Prices and participation may vary. That said, McDonalds corporate isn't running promotions unilaterally. Instead, promotions are proposed by committees elected by franchisees and voted on by franchisees themselves, so participation rates tend to be high.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      So? What I said is correct
ryukoposting 2y ago
How? There's no workplace to speak in hushed tones. There's no manager or de facto leader to make first contact with union representatives. There's no way to know when you've reached a quorum of local drivers. Make no mistake, I sympathize with you. Rideshare/third-party delivery drivers have become America's new techno-feudalist underclass.
- parpfish 2y ago
  I’ve often felt like there would be a lot of value for an app that’d simply let gig workers in an area find each other to talk and actually create a “workplace”. But I’m not sure how you’d fund its creation. No VC would want it and there’s not a wealthy user base to bootstrap it.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Typically such things are bootstrapped not by a wealthy user base but by a talented user base who write the code and set up the organization themselves. However, if you do need some money for boostrapping, there are likely unions out there that would be willing to grant/lend the sums needed, which should be five figures. Taking VC money would be counter-productive, making you beholden to conflicting interests. P.S. The motivation for setting something like this up doesn't necessarily need to be purely selfless. It's not going to make you a billionaire, but if successful a non-profit or co-op you set up to do this can pay you a six figure salary for a job that has significant meaningfulness and significant agency (aka control over your own work). And by being a non-profit or co-op the lack of conflict of interest should make it more likely to be successful.
  - InsideOutSanta 2y ago
    That's a smart idea. It seems like it shouldn't be too expensive to get something like this up and running, but scalability once it's available will be an issue. Estimates for how many gig workers there are in the US vary between "over 20 million" and "about 60 million." They're already tech-literate, they probably talk to each other, so there's a chance that an app like this would experience very quick growth. I wonder how gig services would react to something like this. They'd probably try to identify users and deplatform them, so in addition to the financial aspects, one difficult part would be how to protect and anonymize such a platform's users.
Peroni 2y ago
They already have: https://www.gmb.org.uk/campaigns/deliveroo/ https://www.gmb.org.uk/campaigns/deliveroo/

The critical industry of McDonald's delivery will never pay a living wage. There's not enough value. Folks will have to self-select out.

wahnfrieden 2y ago
McD’s has doubled prices with rising profits
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  And it gets those without having to pay drivers (and technically even workers in most McDonalds’ restaurants since they are franchised), so why would they start? Delivery and final assembly of food is not McDonald’s’ business.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    They would start if workers organized against them. I'm responding to the notion that there's not enough value on the table for collective action
  - titanomachy 2y ago
    "final assembly of food"? I haven't eaten McDonald's in a while, but from what I remember the food arrived fully assembled.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      McDonald’s sells their marketing and logistics, and rents real estate, to franchisors. The franchisors’ business is the one that employs people who do final assembly of the food. The franchisors’ profits and profit margins are nowhere near McDonalds’.
- flerchin 2y ago
  That's true, but the delivery people do not work for McD's. They do not legally work for the delivery companies (although practically they do). People that pay for delivery will not pay very much for delivery, generally less than minimum wage. They'll instead get the food themselves.
- Aloisius 2y ago
  McD's is a franchise in the US. Franchisees set prices.
  - edbrown23 2y ago
    I don't know how this actually works, but this can't _always_ be the case if they run national ad campaigns [1] for $5 meal deals, right? Unless they're baking a lot into "pricing and participation may vary" [1] https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu/5-dollar-meals.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu/5-dollar-meals....
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      If you scroll down, in small text you'll see: *Prices and participation may vary. That said, McDonalds corporate isn't running promotions unilaterally. Instead, promotions are proposed by committees elected by franchisees and voted on by franchisees themselves, so participation rates tend to be high.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    So? What I said is correct

ryukoposting 2y ago

How? There's no workplace to speak in hushed tones. There's no manager or de facto leader to make first contact with union representatives. There's no way to know when you've reached a quorum of local drivers. Make no mistake, I sympathize with you. Rideshare/third-party delivery drivers have become America's new techno-feudalist underclass.

parpfish 2y ago
I’ve often felt like there would be a lot of value for an app that’d simply let gig workers in an area find each other to talk and actually create a “workplace”. But I’m not sure how you’d fund its creation. No VC would want it and there’s not a wealthy user base to bootstrap it.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Typically such things are bootstrapped not by a wealthy user base but by a talented user base who write the code and set up the organization themselves. However, if you do need some money for boostrapping, there are likely unions out there that would be willing to grant/lend the sums needed, which should be five figures. Taking VC money would be counter-productive, making you beholden to conflicting interests. P.S. The motivation for setting something like this up doesn't necessarily need to be purely selfless. It's not going to make you a billionaire, but if successful a non-profit or co-op you set up to do this can pay you a six figure salary for a job that has significant meaningfulness and significant agency (aka control over your own work). And by being a non-profit or co-op the lack of conflict of interest should make it more likely to be successful.
- InsideOutSanta 2y ago
  That's a smart idea. It seems like it shouldn't be too expensive to get something like this up and running, but scalability once it's available will be an issue. Estimates for how many gig workers there are in the US vary between "over 20 million" and "about 60 million." They're already tech-literate, they probably talk to each other, so there's a chance that an app like this would experience very quick growth. I wonder how gig services would react to something like this. They'd probably try to identify users and deplatform them, so in addition to the financial aspects, one difficult part would be how to protect and anonymize such a platform's users.

Peroni 2y ago

They already have: https://www.gmb.org.uk/campaigns/deliveroo/ https://www.gmb.org.uk/campaigns/deliveroo/