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>any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border They wouldn't be breaking EU law in doing so, but whoeve

>any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border They wouldn't be breaking EU law in doing so, but whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception. Germany has been granted a license exception specifically because the BIS trusts them to prevent this from happening. A company in Poland is not prevented from importing advanced GPUs, but they need to apply for either a license or a Validated End-User Authorization. Likewise, Poland could apply to be recognised as an eligible destination country on the same terms as Germany if they can provide written assurances to the US government that they have taken adequate steps to prevent diversion. I'm not a fan of these rules, but I think they're being misrepresented. https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf

tpm 2y ago
> whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception And whoever (if that's an entity trading in the EU) refuses to supply a Polish citizen on the basis of his nationality is most probably breaking the rules of the Common Market. So if nobody wants to break any laws, this ultimately ends with EU buying GPUs from China.
- qwytw 2y ago
  Are all companies in the EU legally required to do business with any company in any EU country whether they want to or not? Seems hard to believe...
  - flir 2y ago
    I think grandparent is arguing that citizenship is a protected characteristic. I think they're on iffy ground there, personally.
    - tpm 2y ago
      It's not a "protected characteristic", protection against discrimination based on nationality or residence is the basis of the Common Market and well tested in the EU courts. That's of course when selling to the consumer, might be a bit different when selling to companies.
      - flir 2y ago
        Thanks for the correction. I'll have to take your word on that.
        tpm 2y ago
        See also for example this: https://www.ecommerce-europe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Geo-blocking-QA.pdf https://www.ecommerce-europe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/G...
  - tpm 2y ago
    That's not what I have written, is it. If a Polish citizen wants to buy a GPU in Germany and is refused on the basis on his nationality or residence, then that's against the law.
    - qwytw 2y ago
      Perhaps. But this is a hypothetical situation you came up with that does not seem to be relevant. Nobody is or is planning to restrict Polish consumers from buying GPUs from Germany. The export regulations we're talking about: > organizations in countries that are not close allies of the US can purchase up to 50,000 advanced GPUs per country over the next two years. Organizations can also apply for a trusted National Verified End User status that would allow them to purchase up to 320,000 advanced GPUs over the next two years. > The vast majority of countries fall into the second tier. This group faces caps on the levels of computing power that can go to any one state: roughly around 50,000 advanced AI chips through 2027, although that can double if the state reaches an agreement with the United States. Individual companies headquartered in tier two countries—for example, companies such as Emirati tech giant G42—can access significantly higher limits if they apply for their own national validated end user status. That process involves making verifiable security commitments, both physical and cyber, and assurances that they will not use those chips in ways that violate human rights (for example, by deploying them for large-scale surveillance purposes). If a company obtains this status, its chip imports won’t count toward the country’s overall maximum cap—a move designed to create incentives for foreign firms to adopt U.S. AI standards.
      - tpm 2y ago
        > But this is a hypothetical situation Let's just say hypothetical situations tend to happen quite often here in CEE. So in the beginning of the 90s, after the fall of communism, the borders were open but old US restrictions on buying computers were still in place for a few years. What did companies do? I think you can guess, a few enterprising guys made good money by privately buying computers in the West and selling them to companies back home. It's a long time ago, but not that long. So I don't know, what happens when a country fills up its quota, but then the quota does not apply to small orders, so you just order in smaller batches or what.. anyway at some point Nvidia says 'No GPUs for you Poland' but that's not really true for e.g. Google that's in Poland too, and also it's not true for consumers buying GPUs. It just doesn't seem to be enforceable to me.
  - benterix 2y ago
    They are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of nationality.
    - qwytw 2y ago
      Why are you bringing nationality into this? Don't see how is this relevant. The company in Poland might be owned and run by a German national and a Pole might be the owner of the German company. The AI chip export rules would apply exactly the same.

tpm 2y ago

> whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception And whoever (if that's an entity trading in the EU) refuses to supply a Polish citizen on the basis of his nationality is most probably breaking the rules of the Common Market. So if nobody wants to break any laws, this ultimately ends with EU buying GPUs from China.

qwytw 2y ago
Are all companies in the EU legally required to do business with any company in any EU country whether they want to or not? Seems hard to believe...
- flir 2y ago
  I think grandparent is arguing that citizenship is a protected characteristic. I think they're on iffy ground there, personally.
  - tpm 2y ago
    It's not a "protected characteristic", protection against discrimination based on nationality or residence is the basis of the Common Market and well tested in the EU courts. That's of course when selling to the consumer, might be a bit different when selling to companies.
    - flir 2y ago
      Thanks for the correction. I'll have to take your word on that.
      - tpm 2y ago
        See also for example this: https://www.ecommerce-europe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Geo-blocking-QA.pdf https://www.ecommerce-europe.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/G...
- tpm 2y ago
  That's not what I have written, is it. If a Polish citizen wants to buy a GPU in Germany and is refused on the basis on his nationality or residence, then that's against the law.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    Perhaps. But this is a hypothetical situation you came up with that does not seem to be relevant. Nobody is or is planning to restrict Polish consumers from buying GPUs from Germany. The export regulations we're talking about: > organizations in countries that are not close allies of the US can purchase up to 50,000 advanced GPUs per country over the next two years. Organizations can also apply for a trusted National Verified End User status that would allow them to purchase up to 320,000 advanced GPUs over the next two years. > The vast majority of countries fall into the second tier. This group faces caps on the levels of computing power that can go to any one state: roughly around 50,000 advanced AI chips through 2027, although that can double if the state reaches an agreement with the United States. Individual companies headquartered in tier two countries—for example, companies such as Emirati tech giant G42—can access significantly higher limits if they apply for their own national validated end user status. That process involves making verifiable security commitments, both physical and cyber, and assurances that they will not use those chips in ways that violate human rights (for example, by deploying them for large-scale surveillance purposes). If a company obtains this status, its chip imports won’t count toward the country’s overall maximum cap—a move designed to create incentives for foreign firms to adopt U.S. AI standards.
    - tpm 2y ago
      > But this is a hypothetical situation Let's just say hypothetical situations tend to happen quite often here in CEE. So in the beginning of the 90s, after the fall of communism, the borders were open but old US restrictions on buying computers were still in place for a few years. What did companies do? I think you can guess, a few enterprising guys made good money by privately buying computers in the West and selling them to companies back home. It's a long time ago, but not that long. So I don't know, what happens when a country fills up its quota, but then the quota does not apply to small orders, so you just order in smaller batches or what.. anyway at some point Nvidia says 'No GPUs for you Poland' but that's not really true for e.g. Google that's in Poland too, and also it's not true for consumers buying GPUs. It just doesn't seem to be enforceable to me.
- benterix 2y ago
  They are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of nationality.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    Why are you bringing nationality into this? Don't see how is this relevant. The company in Poland might be owned and run by a German national and a Pole might be the owner of the German company. The AI chip export rules would apply exactly the same.