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I don’t think that was thought through at all, just some stupid political posturing. First of all lots of chips are in data centres already. Google has one in

I don’t think that was thought through at all, just some stupid political posturing. First of all lots of chips are in data centres already. Google has one in Poland. There’s freedom of movement and business across EU so any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border - there’s no border checks in Schengen area- bit like US interstate borders.

melchizedek6809 2y ago
That particular border actually does get controlled these days, got held up at the German-Polish border just a week or so ago: https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/2024/09/binnengrenzkontrollen_en.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/202... But of course your overall point stands
- patrickmcnamara 2y ago
  They're just checking for illegal immigration though, right? Not like they'll care about GPUs going across the border.
  - melchizedek6809 2y ago
    Seemed that way, in my case at least they only really checked the passports. Doubt they'd notice or care if one brings a trunkload full of GPUs across the border.
diggan 2y ago
> there’s no border checks in Schengen area This is no longer true, they've done a "Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control", and bunch of countries have implemented more control as of late. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-...
- jajko 2y ago
  Switzerland is in Schengen and they kept border checks all the time, also strict limits on goods transferred etc.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > Switzerland is in Schengen and they kept border checks all the time Not sure "all the time" is accurate. Two years ago I drove a car through Switzerland, entering from the South border and leaving at the North border (and ~3 weeks later, the opposite way), there was no border checks at all. The only control we encountered when traveling from Spain to Sweden (and vice-versa) by car was the quick checks at the German<>Denmark ferry border.
    - flakeoil 2y ago
      It's not "all the time", but any time they want. You have to declare goods all the time though (if above limit) as there are limits in place for meat, alcohol etc.
      - diggan 2y ago
        > You have to declare goods all the time though (if above limit) as there are limits in place for meat, alcohol etc. Yes, of course, but this is true anywhere, not just for the places under the "Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control".
    - jajko 2y ago
      I live here 15 years and cross borders to France and Austria quite often. Of course not 100% of the checkpoints are manned 100% of the time, I know quite a few small ones around Geneva for example where you could smuggle truckload of heroin 24/7 for a decade without any worry of ever seeing border police. Also checks are random and not focused on specific things, sometimes romanian van chock full of stuff is stopped and sometimes its swiss family car. But all major are and were in the past, all frontaliers coming daily for the jobs in all border cantons can tell you about wonders of morning checks corresponding massive traffic jams forming in front of the border crossings, every single day. 1/3 of my office colleagues experience this every day. Major eastern border crossings are 100% manned though, morning day night doesn't matter.
jdietrich 2y ago
>any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border They wouldn't be breaking EU law in doing so, but whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception. Germany has been granted a license exception specifically because the BIS trusts them to prevent this from happening. A company in Poland is not prevented from importing advanced GPUs, but they need to apply for either a license or a Validated End-User Authorization. Likewise, Poland could apply to be recognised as an eligible destination country on the same terms as Germany if they can provide written assurances to the US government that they have taken adequate steps to prevent diversion. I'm not a fan of these rules, but I think they're being misrepresented. https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf
- tpm 2y ago
  > whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception And whoever (if that's an entity trading in the EU) refuses to supply a Polish citizen on the basis of his nationality is most probably breaking the rules of the Common Market. So if nobody wants to break any laws, this ultimately ends with EU buying GPUs from China.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    Are all companies in the EU legally required to do business with any company in any EU country whether they want to or not? Seems hard to believe...
    - flir 2y ago
      I think grandparent is arguing that citizenship is a protected characteristic. I think they're on iffy ground there, personally.
      - tpm 2y ago
        It's not a "protected characteristic", protection against discrimination based on nationality or residence is the basis of the Common Market and well tested in the EU courts. That's of course when selling to the consumer, might be a bit different when selling to companies.
flir 2y ago
Do you even need to drive them over the border? Plug them in in Germany, go use them from a laptop in Poland. (I don't get export controls on cloud hardware. Unless it's protectionism designed to lock countries with cheap energy prices out of the market, of course. I could see that rationale).
- benterix 2y ago
  That was actually my first though. Why even bother moving them physically?
  - sharpshadow 2y ago
    Maybe because Germany has with the highest energy prices in the world and the rent is high too. Other way around would be better.
    - benterix 2y ago
      In spite of high energy prices, Hetzner manages to be one of the most competitive bare metal/cloud/colo provider in the world. Although in the case of colocation, they do offer space in Finland for ca 1/3 less per kWh.
Larrikin 2y ago
It's highly illegal in the US to setup a business in NY (say a bodega), drive to a state with cheap cigarettes like VA, and transport those cigarettes over state lines for sale in NY.

melchizedek6809 2y ago

That particular border actually does get controlled these days, got held up at the German-Polish border just a week or so ago: https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/2024/09/binnengrenzkontrollen_en.html https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/EN/202... But of course your overall point stands

patrickmcnamara 2y ago
They're just checking for illegal immigration though, right? Not like they'll care about GPUs going across the border.
- melchizedek6809 2y ago
  Seemed that way, in my case at least they only really checked the passports. Doubt they'd notice or care if one brings a trunkload full of GPUs across the border.

diggan 2y ago

> there’s no border checks in Schengen area This is no longer true, they've done a "Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control", and bunch of countries have implemented more control as of late. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-...

jajko 2y ago
Switzerland is in Schengen and they kept border checks all the time, also strict limits on goods transferred etc.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Switzerland is in Schengen and they kept border checks all the time Not sure "all the time" is accurate. Two years ago I drove a car through Switzerland, entering from the South border and leaving at the North border (and ~3 weeks later, the opposite way), there was no border checks at all. The only control we encountered when traveling from Spain to Sweden (and vice-versa) by car was the quick checks at the German<>Denmark ferry border.
  - flakeoil 2y ago
    It's not "all the time", but any time they want. You have to declare goods all the time though (if above limit) as there are limits in place for meat, alcohol etc.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > You have to declare goods all the time though (if above limit) as there are limits in place for meat, alcohol etc. Yes, of course, but this is true anywhere, not just for the places under the "Temporary Reintroduction of Border Control".
  - jajko 2y ago
    I live here 15 years and cross borders to France and Austria quite often. Of course not 100% of the checkpoints are manned 100% of the time, I know quite a few small ones around Geneva for example where you could smuggle truckload of heroin 24/7 for a decade without any worry of ever seeing border police. Also checks are random and not focused on specific things, sometimes romanian van chock full of stuff is stopped and sometimes its swiss family car. But all major are and were in the past, all frontaliers coming daily for the jobs in all border cantons can tell you about wonders of morning checks corresponding massive traffic jams forming in front of the border crossings, every single day. 1/3 of my office colleagues experience this every day. Major eastern border crossings are 100% manned though, morning day night doesn't matter.

jdietrich 2y ago

>any Polish citizen can set up company in Germany buy the chips and legally drive them over the border They wouldn't be breaking EU law in doing so, but whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception. Germany has been granted a license exception specifically because the BIS trusts them to prevent this from happening. A company in Poland is not prevented from importing advanced GPUs, but they need to apply for either a license or a Validated End-User Authorization. Likewise, Poland could apply to be recognised as an eligible destination country on the same terms as Germany if they can provide written assurances to the US government that they have taken adequate steps to prevent diversion. I'm not a fan of these rules, but I think they're being misrepresented. https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2025-00636.pdf

tpm 2y ago
> whoever supplied this Polish citizen would be breaching the terms of their US export license or license exception And whoever (if that's an entity trading in the EU) refuses to supply a Polish citizen on the basis of his nationality is most probably breaking the rules of the Common Market. So if nobody wants to break any laws, this ultimately ends with EU buying GPUs from China.
- qwytw 2y ago
  Are all companies in the EU legally required to do business with any company in any EU country whether they want to or not? Seems hard to believe...
  - flir 2y ago
    I think grandparent is arguing that citizenship is a protected characteristic. I think they're on iffy ground there, personally.
    - tpm 2y ago
      It's not a "protected characteristic", protection against discrimination based on nationality or residence is the basis of the Common Market and well tested in the EU courts. That's of course when selling to the consumer, might be a bit different when selling to companies.

flir 2y ago

Do you even need to drive them over the border? Plug them in in Germany, go use them from a laptop in Poland. (I don't get export controls on cloud hardware. Unless it's protectionism designed to lock countries with cheap energy prices out of the market, of course. I could see that rationale).

benterix 2y ago
That was actually my first though. Why even bother moving them physically?
- sharpshadow 2y ago
  Maybe because Germany has with the highest energy prices in the world and the rent is high too. Other way around would be better.
  - benterix 2y ago
    In spite of high energy prices, Hetzner manages to be one of the most competitive bare metal/cloud/colo provider in the world. Although in the case of colocation, they do offer space in Finland for ca 1/3 less per kWh.

Larrikin 2y ago

It's highly illegal in the US to setup a business in NY (say a bodega), drive to a state with cheap cigarettes like VA, and transport those cigarettes over state lines for sale in NY.