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> I wish the press would dedicate ink to the endless War On Meds That Maintain Quality Of Life. These drugs certainly improve quality of life for some people,

> I wish the press would dedicate ink to the endless War On Meds That Maintain Quality Of Life. These drugs certainly improve quality of life for some people, but they have legitimate dangers. As we begin to understand them better, I think it's a good thing that we become more cautious in our approach towards recommending them to people. I don't know your friends, and I cannot presume to know the exact details of their situations or their exact prescriptions. But have you ever considered that they're addicted? Ambien (Zolpidem) is only prescribed for short term use (around 2 weeks) nowadays because of the risk for addiction and various psychological side effects (aggressiveness, agitation, even minor amnesia). But you said your friend has taken those pills for years and *plans to move to another state* just to get more of them? As for your friend who has taken opioids for years, it's certainly possible to take them irregularly for years and remain in control. However, most people who regularly take opioids for several years become addicts. I genuinely wish the best for all of your friends, and of course I hope we can invent better pharmaceuticals to treat these issues without the risks of current options. Unfortunately, quite a lot of people have had their lives ruined by those drugs, and I think your stance on this is underestimating the larger harm to society that they present.

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
> These drugs certainly improve quality of life for some people, but they have legitimate dangers. This is a good illustration of my point. You express this concern as if we haven't had decades of relentless - and insanely disproportionate - demonization of these meds. > But have you ever considered that they're addicted? Of course. My repeated inclusion of responsible use is a strong signal that the risks (which are relentlessly bullhonred at us) have been considered. > Ambien (Zolpidem) is only prescribed for short term use (around 2 weeks) nowadays because of the risk for addiction and various psychological side effects (aggressiveness, agitation, even minor amnesia). But you said your friend has taken those pills for years This leaves out every key part of my assertion. It omits that they take the lowest manufactured dosage (a dosage so low, it can be difficult to source). It ignores the med is consistently effective and enables functionality. Omitting those details increases the alarm factor in your presentation and it sacrifices the nuances of our actual reality. What you did there is important. Altering my point this way completely diminishes our challenges. Once our challenges are cut from the discussion, you have room to present an anti-med narrative - the same narrative that fuels the harms being done to us. > But you said your friend has taken those pills for years and plans to move to another state just to get more of them? At this point you are presenting one surgically altered context after another. The context of my statement said >a reflection of ever reactive medical laws being added to the books every year. It's the primary reason my loved one is migrating to another state. Their med issues are a reflection of the ever increasing hostility to effective medical treatment. That is a primary factor in my loved one's migration. . You keep mischaracterizing my points, severely. This could be reasonably interpreted as bad faith on your part. However, I don't believe you're acting in bad faith. Instead, I think you rewrite my statements inside your head. Once done, I think what you have doesn't reflect what I wrote. And then I think you react to that.
- Reubend 2y ago
  > You express this concern as if we haven't had decades of relentless - and insanely disproportionate - demonization of these meds. I don't think it's disproportionate at all. These drugs can be extremely helpful for some, and they can be life ruining for others. There were > 80,000 deaths in the USA from opioids in 2022, including > 14,000 from prescription opioids. Those numbers are specifically for deaths, but many more are struggling with addiction as a result of their usage. If we can invent a superior class of pain relievers in the future with a lower potential for dependency, and perhaps less recreational appeal as well, it would save quite a lot of lives. > It ignores the med is consistently effective and enables functionality. Omitting those details increases the alarm factor in your presentation and it sacrifices the nuances of our actual reality. I never ignored effectiveness. I have no doubt that taking the ambien helps your friend sleep, or that opiates treat your other friend's pain well. For some, the benefits certainly outweigh the negatives, and as I said previously, I wish all the best for your friends. > You keep mischaracterizing my points, severely. This could be reasonably interpreted as bad faith on your part. However, I don't believe you're acting in bad faith. I'm not acting in bad faith. I genuinely believe that doctors should be cautious when prescribing those drugs, and that the public should be well educated about the risks of those medications. I think that if you take a step back and remember that hundreds of thousands of people have died from these drugs in a completely preventable tragedy, you might concede that it's not an "insanely disproportionate demonization" but rather an understandable reaction to a public danger.
LorenPechtel 2y ago
You are mixing up "addicted" with "habituated". Anyone who uses such stuff for a long time will have adapted to some degree and there will be issues from suddenly stopping. That does not mean that they are using the stuff recreationally, though! Did it not occur to you that perhaps they will be rather non-functional from a lack of sleep if they don't have them? When sleep issues are caused by mental conditions you can generally address them. But when it's the side effect of something physical the attempts to address such things without drugs do not fare very well.
- Reubend 2y ago
  Habits are indeed different from addictions. But surely you acknowledge that these are addictive drugs we're talking about? They've been well studied and people develop both physical and mental dependencies on them far beyond mere habits. > When sleep issues are caused by mental conditions you can generally address them. But when it's the side effect of something physical the attempts to address such things without drugs do not fare very well. Actually, there are plenty of ways to improve sleep quality without drugs. Typically, Zolpidem is prescribed only after those methods have been tried. But again, the prevailing medical guideline is to only use drugs like that for a short term period in the neighborhood of 2 weeks. It's not recommended that you use them for years, even at a low dosage or on an irregular schedule.

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago

> These drugs certainly improve quality of life for some people, but they have legitimate dangers. This is a good illustration of my point. You express this concern as if we haven't had decades of relentless - and insanely disproportionate - demonization of these meds. > But have you ever considered that they're addicted? Of course. My repeated inclusion of responsible use is a strong signal that the risks (which are relentlessly bullhonred at us) have been considered. > Ambien (Zolpidem) is only prescribed for short term use (around 2 weeks) nowadays because of the risk for addiction and various psychological side effects (aggressiveness, agitation, even minor amnesia). But you said your friend has taken those pills for years This leaves out every key part of my assertion. It omits that they take the lowest manufactured dosage (a dosage so low, it can be difficult to source). It ignores the med is consistently effective and enables functionality. Omitting those details increases the alarm factor in your presentation and it sacrifices the nuances of our actual reality. What you did there is important. Altering my point this way completely diminishes our challenges. Once our challenges are cut from the discussion, you have room to present an anti-med narrative - the same narrative that fuels the harms being done to us. > But you said your friend has taken those pills for years and plans to move to another state just to get more of them? At this point you are presenting one surgically altered context after another. The context of my statement said >a reflection of ever reactive medical laws being added to the books every year. It's the primary reason my loved one is migrating to another state. Their med issues are a reflection of the ever increasing hostility to effective medical treatment. That is a primary factor in my loved one's migration. . You keep mischaracterizing my points, severely. This could be reasonably interpreted as bad faith on your part. However, I don't believe you're acting in bad faith. Instead, I think you rewrite my statements inside your head. Once done, I think what you have doesn't reflect what I wrote. And then I think you react to that.

Reubend 2y ago
> You express this concern as if we haven't had decades of relentless - and insanely disproportionate - demonization of these meds. I don't think it's disproportionate at all. These drugs can be extremely helpful for some, and they can be life ruining for others. There were > 80,000 deaths in the USA from opioids in 2022, including > 14,000 from prescription opioids. Those numbers are specifically for deaths, but many more are struggling with addiction as a result of their usage. If we can invent a superior class of pain relievers in the future with a lower potential for dependency, and perhaps less recreational appeal as well, it would save quite a lot of lives. > It ignores the med is consistently effective and enables functionality. Omitting those details increases the alarm factor in your presentation and it sacrifices the nuances of our actual reality. I never ignored effectiveness. I have no doubt that taking the ambien helps your friend sleep, or that opiates treat your other friend's pain well. For some, the benefits certainly outweigh the negatives, and as I said previously, I wish all the best for your friends. > You keep mischaracterizing my points, severely. This could be reasonably interpreted as bad faith on your part. However, I don't believe you're acting in bad faith. I'm not acting in bad faith. I genuinely believe that doctors should be cautious when prescribing those drugs, and that the public should be well educated about the risks of those medications. I think that if you take a step back and remember that hundreds of thousands of people have died from these drugs in a completely preventable tragedy, you might concede that it's not an "insanely disproportionate demonization" but rather an understandable reaction to a public danger.

LorenPechtel 2y ago

You are mixing up "addicted" with "habituated". Anyone who uses such stuff for a long time will have adapted to some degree and there will be issues from suddenly stopping. That does not mean that they are using the stuff recreationally, though! Did it not occur to you that perhaps they will be rather non-functional from a lack of sleep if they don't have them? When sleep issues are caused by mental conditions you can generally address them. But when it's the side effect of something physical the attempts to address such things without drugs do not fare very well.

Reubend 2y ago
Habits are indeed different from addictions. But surely you acknowledge that these are addictive drugs we're talking about? They've been well studied and people develop both physical and mental dependencies on them far beyond mere habits. > When sleep issues are caused by mental conditions you can generally address them. But when it's the side effect of something physical the attempts to address such things without drugs do not fare very well. Actually, there are plenty of ways to improve sleep quality without drugs. Typically, Zolpidem is prescribed only after those methods have been tried. But again, the prevailing medical guideline is to only use drugs like that for a short term period in the neighborhood of 2 weeks. It's not recommended that you use them for years, even at a low dosage or on an irregular schedule.