4 ms·

Yes, of course they are. Just one example is conscription.

anigbrowl 2y ago
Men under the age of 26, documented or not, are required to sign up after being in the US for 30 days, unless they are on a valid visa. https://www.sss.gov/register/immigrants/ https://www.sss.gov/register/immigrants/
- willmadden 2y ago
  That's murky and it's not enforced. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. If you want some more examples: Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    It's not murky, I just picked the most official source. There's no real enforcement of selective service, except that if you don't sign up for it likely bars from subsequent employment by the Federal government unless you can get a waiver. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. We haven't had a draft since the 1970s. It's unclear how many draftees were immigrants back then (and the legal definitions around immigration have changed in the meantime) but historically conscription of immigrants has been the norm, not the exception. Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses. These seem like things from which undocumented immigrants are excluded (by law!), not immunized. Why you think this is an argument in favor of your legal theory is beyond me.
    - willmadden 2y ago
      The correct legal term is "illegal aliens" not "undocumented immigrants". My argument is that the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" may be interpreted to mean that individuals must be under the complete, allegiance-owing jurisdiction of the United States, and because they may not be for a host of reasons, the SCOTUS may reevaluate US v Wong Kim Ark and reinterpret the 14th amendment. There's also this 1866 Congressional document discussing the 14th after it was passed detailing "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It reads "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of embassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but it will include every other class of persons." https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/1 https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/... There's a very strong case here.
- thehappypm 2y ago
  That hardly means anything about birthright citizenship and says a lot more about the draft
arcticbull 2y ago
They are required to pay taxes worldwide income [1] and register for selective service as the peer comment stated. [1] https://calawyers.org/publications/taxation/ca-tax-lawyer-march-2021-volume-30-number-1-tax-treatment-of-undocumented-immigrants-in-california/ https://calawyers.org/publications/taxation/ca-tax-lawyer-ma...
- thehappypm 2y ago
  The state wanting the blood and money of illegals isn’t proof of anything more than the state wanting ever more blood and money

Men under the age of 26, documented or not, are required to sign up after being in the US for 30 days, unless they are on a valid visa. https://www.sss.gov/register/immigrants/ https://www.sss.gov/register/immigrants/

willmadden 2y ago
That's murky and it's not enforced. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. If you want some more examples: Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  It's not murky, I just picked the most official source. There's no real enforcement of selective service, except that if you don't sign up for it likely bars from subsequent employment by the Federal government unless you can get a waiver. In practice, immigrants aren't conscripted during a draft. We haven't had a draft since the 1970s. It's unclear how many draftees were immigrants back then (and the legal definitions around immigration have changed in the meantime) but historically conscription of immigrants has been the norm, not the exception. Voting, Jury Service, Employment Authorization, and Driver's licenses. These seem like things from which undocumented immigrants are excluded (by law!), not immunized. Why you think this is an argument in favor of your legal theory is beyond me.
  - willmadden 2y ago
    The correct legal term is "illegal aliens" not "undocumented immigrants". My argument is that the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" may be interpreted to mean that individuals must be under the complete, allegiance-owing jurisdiction of the United States, and because they may not be for a host of reasons, the SCOTUS may reevaluate US v Wong Kim Ark and reinterpret the 14th amendment. There's also this 1866 Congressional document discussing the 14th after it was passed detailing "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It reads "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of embassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but it will include every other class of persons." https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/1 https://x.com/pepesgrandma/status/1057514062899277824/photo/... There's a very strong case here.
thehappypm 2y ago
That hardly means anything about birthright citizenship and says a lot more about the draft

arcticbull 2y ago

They are required to pay taxes worldwide income [1] and register for selective service as the peer comment stated. [1] https://calawyers.org/publications/taxation/ca-tax-lawyer-march-2021-volume-30-number-1-tax-treatment-of-undocumented-immigrants-in-california/ https://calawyers.org/publications/taxation/ca-tax-lawyer-ma...

thehappypm 2y ago
The state wanting the blood and money of illegals isn’t proof of anything more than the state wanting ever more blood and money