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I like it. “You ban ours and we’ll ban yours” type of approach

kelseyfrog 2y ago
As a parent, this kind of behavior leads to escalation and is indicative of adolescents in grades K-6. Usually people grow out of it before they reach adulthood. Our ability to suppress our desire for revenge is what makes society work.
- cmonreally123 2y ago
  Usually adults both work together and play by the same rules, no? Is China working together in cases outside of this? In prisoners dilemma tit for tat is a winning strategy for a reason.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    No, we judge the rules based on merit. If the other person kicks you out, you don't usually follow suit blindly by applying their rules to them. That is following other people's rules rather than your own and lacks integrity.
    - esperent 2y ago
      I think the characterizion of this as tit for tat lacks nuance. If you look at China's actions over the last while, in the South China sea, in regards to Taiwan, banning western apps, "accidentally" damaging subsea cables, industrial espionage at huge scale, and probably a thousand other small and large things I don't know about: if we put this into human terms, it's like a child who is constantly testing you and pushing the boundaries to see what they can get away with. The correct thing to do in this case, as an adult, is to have firm boundaries and push back strongly but fairly whenever they are crossed. However, while it's an interesting thought experiment, anthropomorphasizing nation states in this way will only get you so far. China is not a child, nor is the USA, and they're not adults either. While it does sometimes seem apt, the concept of maturity, in human development terms, cannot be applied here.
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
        The concept of maturity is for us. We have the freedom to choose what we believe about the actions of nations. Besides a nation cannot do anything without the actions of people. We conveniently describe people's actions as being of a nation, but we should be careful in not taking this too literally. It's a convenient linguistic device that doesn't reflect the reality that underlying all national action is the action of people.
  - lblume 2y ago
    Tit for tat is not a winning strategy in the game theoretical iterated prisoner's dilemma. It is a winning strategy in a competition between strategies, but the incentives of these competitions do not align with the actual game. In fact, the strategy by definition never leads to a win and is weakly dominated by just never cooperating.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Razengan 2y ago
A better answer would have been to develop some kind of decentralized censorship-resistant worldwide network, but that wouldn't have served the "iNtErEsTs" of the people wanting to maintain power over civilians.
throw2837383 2y ago
Do they ban our apps? How come all of Apple's and Microsoft's apps can work there?
- willy_k 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

As a parent, this kind of behavior leads to escalation and is indicative of adolescents in grades K-6. Usually people grow out of it before they reach adulthood. Our ability to suppress our desire for revenge is what makes society work.

cmonreally123 2y ago
Usually adults both work together and play by the same rules, no? Is China working together in cases outside of this? In prisoners dilemma tit for tat is a winning strategy for a reason.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  No, we judge the rules based on merit. If the other person kicks you out, you don't usually follow suit blindly by applying their rules to them. That is following other people's rules rather than your own and lacks integrity.
  - esperent 2y ago
    I think the characterizion of this as tit for tat lacks nuance. If you look at China's actions over the last while, in the South China sea, in regards to Taiwan, banning western apps, "accidentally" damaging subsea cables, industrial espionage at huge scale, and probably a thousand other small and large things I don't know about: if we put this into human terms, it's like a child who is constantly testing you and pushing the boundaries to see what they can get away with. The correct thing to do in this case, as an adult, is to have firm boundaries and push back strongly but fairly whenever they are crossed. However, while it's an interesting thought experiment, anthropomorphasizing nation states in this way will only get you so far. China is not a child, nor is the USA, and they're not adults either. While it does sometimes seem apt, the concept of maturity, in human development terms, cannot be applied here.
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      The concept of maturity is for us. We have the freedom to choose what we believe about the actions of nations. Besides a nation cannot do anything without the actions of people. We conveniently describe people's actions as being of a nation, but we should be careful in not taking this too literally. It's a convenient linguistic device that doesn't reflect the reality that underlying all national action is the action of people.
- lblume 2y ago
  Tit for tat is not a winning strategy in the game theoretical iterated prisoner's dilemma. It is a winning strategy in a competition between strategies, but the incentives of these competitions do not align with the actual game. In fact, the strategy by definition never leads to a win and is weakly dominated by just never cooperating.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Razengan 2y ago

A better answer would have been to develop some kind of decentralized censorship-resistant worldwide network, but that wouldn't have served the "iNtErEsTs" of the people wanting to maintain power over civilians.

throw2837383 2y ago

Do they ban our apps? How come all of Apple's and Microsoft's apps can work there?

willy_k 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...