6 ms·

Can you unflag it? What Musk has done is not a small thing. If Hacker News is about the tech industry then we need to see the tech industry clearly, warts and

by zfg 2y ago

Can you unflag it? What Musk has done is not a small thing. If Hacker News is about the tech industry then we need to see the tech industry clearly, warts and all. We cannot run away from it. We cannot memory hole it.

dang 2y ago
Past experience with this kind of thing by you-know-who does not lend itself to the idea of a substantive discussion. HN isn't "about the tech industry" per se - its mandate is to discuss topics of intellectual curiosity. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Celebrity troll moves (or whatever this is) don't fit that bill, so in this case I'm inclined to agree with the users who flagged the story.
- zfg 2y ago
  The end result of that is that Musk will be lionized by Hacker News but never criticized. Your policy settings are wrong.
  - dang 2y ago
    > lionized by Hacker News but never criticized. You need only look at any thread involving His Muskness from the past several years to satisfy yourself that is not the case.
    - calf 2y ago
      There are plenty of authors and writers who could discuss political controversies as intellectually profound learning examples, etc. That is a norm in academia, for example. It reflects more on online forums and basic limitations of forum structure and demographics, rather than anything intrinsic about a given topic.
      - dang 2y ago
        I totally agree. There's a long and superb tradition of that. But the Brownian motion of a large internet forum can't produce it.
        0dayz 2y ago
        I highly doubt you hold this degree of standard to any other person who was caught in similar obvious predicament. Saying "oh this forum doesn't like him therefor we don't need to see this" is just bizarre, since then people ought to rejoice at the self proclaimed nerd and tech wiz showing a different color then stated.
        dang 2y ago
        Sorry, but I'm not following your point here.
    - aredox 2y ago
      A story about Musk being unable to explain X/Twitter's stack and immediatly attacking the person asking him about it has been not only flagged but completely removed. Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1i53nzv/elon_musk_freaks_out_when_he_cant_explain/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1i53nzv/elo... Flagged + deleted HN story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42775528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42775528
      - palata 2y ago
        I hate Musk, and he doesn't seem to have a clue about the Twitter stack. But in this link that you shared, those who ask the questions are being disrespectful first. From my point of view, this recording has no value at all.
      - dang 2y ago
        That post wasn't deleted. If you turn 'showdead' on in your profile, you'll see it. (This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.) We never delete a post outright except when the author asks us to (and not necessarily then, either, for example if it got replies).
- kitsune_ 2y ago
  How does a discussion about ethics and symbolism not fall under intellectual curiosity?
  - f38zf5vdt 2y ago
    There must have been a breakdown somewhere in our objective view of reality when doing fascist salutes at the inauguration of the largest tech-business bearing country in the world, by the wealthiest tech CEO in the world, are whittled down to "Celebrity troll moves". I don't know if HN is beyond saving, but it does feel like it tows the line when it comes to techno-fascism. A discussion worth having, if we could.
    - morkalork 2y ago
      I wonder if there were any concerned engineers at IBM who tried to raise their voices over the tabulating machines being sold to Nazi Germany? If there were, I bet they heard similar things as today when they were brushed off.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      Yes. This is beyond surreal. Is this normalized now? Since when? I don't understand.
  - belorn 2y ago
    I would like to see a discussions on about ethics and symbolism. The hand on heart, and then a gesture of throwing it outwards towards the public while saying "My heart goes out to you" is a very different symbolic gesture compared to a salute were a person execute it by extending the right arm stiff to an upward 45° angle and then straightening the hand so that it is parallel to the arm. In term of symbolism, what create the difference in interpretation? How much does the context of the speech and speaker influence how the symbolic gesture get interpreted? In terms of ethics, if the intention is to generate outrage in order to generate views and media coverage, does media coverage help or harm? Research on violence has has reached a fairly strong consensus that symbolism and displaying of cultural values is a major contributor for continued violence and conflicts. What should be the most effective (and ethical) strategy in reducing such display?
- silexia 2y ago
  Thank you for keeping this inflammatory garbage to a minimum. If photographers followed anyone around for a day, they could catch you do any number of silly poses.
  - zfg 2y ago
    Especially when you're speaking at a political rally and you perform two fascist salutes.
    - tpkee 2y ago
      Nono, you don't understand. He is autistic so he didn't know what he was doing, in fact he is giving money to far right/nazi parties throughout the whole europe because he loves free speech and democracy
basementcat 2y ago
A large fraction of the folks here need this to be memory holed. Otherwise people will know how individuals on this forum stand on this issue.
- dang 2y ago
  HN commenters definitely aren't pro you-know-who on the whole; quite the opposite. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42776448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42776448) More importantly, the issue isn't whether people are boo or yay; it's that both the boo comments and the yay comments are repetitive, nasty, and boring...keeping in mind that something can be both boring and intense at the same time. Since that's what we're trying to avoid here, we should avoid it in this case as well.
  - nosioptar 2y ago
    Is "you-know-who" Trump? If so, why not just say his name?
    - dang 2y ago
      I meant the Muskian variety. Some combination of being playful, superstitious, squeamish, and hoping not to trigger a headless chicken effect, I suppose.
      - teddyh 2y ago
        Anyone who says the name of you-know-who is now a Nazi.
  - lazystar 2y ago
    I 100% agree with your opinion that the top level comments would all be of a similar nature, but I think youre not considering how the thread comments would allow people to have a place to discuss what comes next, both for the nation and for the troll. It's a stunt clearly done to keep the executive orders out of the light, but unlike many of their previlus troll actions that had a similar goal, it's a stunt that will have long term implications. The only other place to discuss it are the one million threads on reddit, where all the top level comments are bots. Again I agree with your points, but not your conclusion.

by zfg 2y ago

dang 2y ago

Past experience with this kind of thing by you-know-who does not lend itself to the idea of a substantive discussion. HN isn't "about the tech industry" per se - its mandate is to discuss topics of intellectual curiosity. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Celebrity troll moves (or whatever this is) don't fit that bill, so in this case I'm inclined to agree with the users who flagged the story.

zfg 2y ago
The end result of that is that Musk will be lionized by Hacker News but never criticized. Your policy settings are wrong.
- dang 2y ago
  > lionized by Hacker News but never criticized. You need only look at any thread involving His Muskness from the past several years to satisfy yourself that is not the case.
  - calf 2y ago
    There are plenty of authors and writers who could discuss political controversies as intellectually profound learning examples, etc. That is a norm in academia, for example. It reflects more on online forums and basic limitations of forum structure and demographics, rather than anything intrinsic about a given topic.
    - dang 2y ago
      I totally agree. There's a long and superb tradition of that. But the Brownian motion of a large internet forum can't produce it.
      - 0dayz 2y ago
        I highly doubt you hold this degree of standard to any other person who was caught in similar obvious predicament. Saying "oh this forum doesn't like him therefor we don't need to see this" is just bizarre, since then people ought to rejoice at the self proclaimed nerd and tech wiz showing a different color then stated.
        dang 2y ago
        Sorry, but I'm not following your point here.
  - aredox 2y ago
    A story about Musk being unable to explain X/Twitter's stack and immediatly attacking the person asking him about it has been not only flagged but completely removed. Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1i53nzv/elon_musk_freaks_out_when_he_cant_explain/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1i53nzv/elo... Flagged + deleted HN story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42775528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42775528
    - palata 2y ago
      I hate Musk, and he doesn't seem to have a clue about the Twitter stack. But in this link that you shared, those who ask the questions are being disrespectful first. From my point of view, this recording has no value at all.
    - dang 2y ago
      That post wasn't deleted. If you turn 'showdead' on in your profile, you'll see it. (This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.) We never delete a post outright except when the author asks us to (and not necessarily then, either, for example if it got replies).
kitsune_ 2y ago
How does a discussion about ethics and symbolism not fall under intellectual curiosity?
- f38zf5vdt 2y ago
  There must have been a breakdown somewhere in our objective view of reality when doing fascist salutes at the inauguration of the largest tech-business bearing country in the world, by the wealthiest tech CEO in the world, are whittled down to "Celebrity troll moves". I don't know if HN is beyond saving, but it does feel like it tows the line when it comes to techno-fascism. A discussion worth having, if we could.
  - morkalork 2y ago
    I wonder if there were any concerned engineers at IBM who tried to raise their voices over the tabulating machines being sold to Nazi Germany? If there were, I bet they heard similar things as today when they were brushed off.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Yes. This is beyond surreal. Is this normalized now? Since when? I don't understand.
- belorn 2y ago
  I would like to see a discussions on about ethics and symbolism. The hand on heart, and then a gesture of throwing it outwards towards the public while saying "My heart goes out to you" is a very different symbolic gesture compared to a salute were a person execute it by extending the right arm stiff to an upward 45° angle and then straightening the hand so that it is parallel to the arm. In term of symbolism, what create the difference in interpretation? How much does the context of the speech and speaker influence how the symbolic gesture get interpreted? In terms of ethics, if the intention is to generate outrage in order to generate views and media coverage, does media coverage help or harm? Research on violence has has reached a fairly strong consensus that symbolism and displaying of cultural values is a major contributor for continued violence and conflicts. What should be the most effective (and ethical) strategy in reducing such display?
silexia 2y ago
Thank you for keeping this inflammatory garbage to a minimum. If photographers followed anyone around for a day, they could catch you do any number of silly poses.
- zfg 2y ago
  Especially when you're speaking at a political rally and you perform two fascist salutes.
  - tpkee 2y ago
    Nono, you don't understand. He is autistic so he didn't know what he was doing, in fact he is giving money to far right/nazi parties throughout the whole europe because he loves free speech and democracy

basementcat 2y ago

A large fraction of the folks here need this to be memory holed. Otherwise people will know how individuals on this forum stand on this issue.

dang 2y ago
HN commenters definitely aren't pro you-know-who on the whole; quite the opposite. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42776448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42776448) More importantly, the issue isn't whether people are boo or yay; it's that both the boo comments and the yay comments are repetitive, nasty, and boring...keeping in mind that something can be both boring and intense at the same time. Since that's what we're trying to avoid here, we should avoid it in this case as well.
- nosioptar 2y ago
  Is "you-know-who" Trump? If so, why not just say his name?
  - dang 2y ago
    I meant the Muskian variety. Some combination of being playful, superstitious, squeamish, and hoping not to trigger a headless chicken effect, I suppose.
    - teddyh 2y ago
      Anyone who says the name of you-know-who is now a Nazi.
- lazystar 2y ago
  I 100% agree with your opinion that the top level comments would all be of a similar nature, but I think youre not considering how the thread comments would allow people to have a place to discuss what comes next, both for the nation and for the troll. It's a stunt clearly done to keep the executive orders out of the light, but unlike many of their previlus troll actions that had a similar goal, it's a stunt that will have long term implications. The only other place to discuss it are the one million threads on reddit, where all the top level comments are bots. Again I agree with your points, but not your conclusion.