22 ms·

Your argument seems ideological. There is no chance they could have improved Flake8 to be as good as Ruff is.

by searealist 2y ago

burntsushi 2y ago
Folks said the same thing to me about grep 8.5 years ago when I released ripgrep.
- oguz-ismail 2y ago
  And you think you've done it?
- JelteF 2y ago
  Wait... Did you misunderstand this comment? Or are you saying grep caught up with ripgrep now?
  - burntsushi 2y ago
    I'm agreeing with them. Some folks told me I should have improved grep instead of building my own thing.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  FWIW, I think the reason I'm conflicted is probably a similar reason to why you made a separate new thing. Overcoming the inertia and ways of doing things, or proposing widespread changes, often doesn't go down well with existing maintainers – for very valid reasons. I probably wouldn't want to go into the grep project and suggest rearchitecting it, and I can see why the Ruff developers didn't want to go into projects like Flake8 and Pylint to do the same. But that doesn't stop me from feeling that there were things lost in this process and wishing for a better outcome.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tialaramex 2y ago
  A huge advantage of going your own way is that you don't need to address an audience you think are just wrong. When this happens periodically (rather than, every other week) you also get the original GNU advantage which is you can revisit an old tool but knowing what you know now, for example today "everybody" has DVCS, and so ripgrep checks for the .gitignore file.
danpalmer 2y ago
Yeah it's somewhat ideological, I think open source software is better for society when built as a community project than built and controlled by a VC funded company. I don't think you could get flake8 to be as fast as Ruff, but I think you could improve it to be within an order of magnitude, and honestly that's plenty good enough. There are a lot of low hanging fruit, particularly around caching. I'd push back on there being no chance of being "as good as" Ruff, because "good" is not just speed. Ruff is _not complete_, if you want all the features and linters, you still need Flake8, or you have to sacrifice some. It's also not publicly extensible, and not written in Python, both of which are fair choices but I think deviate from the ideal scenario here.

Your argument seems ideological. There is no chance they could have improved Flake8 to be as good as Ruff is.

burntsushi 2y ago

Folks said the same thing to me about grep 8.5 years ago when I released ripgrep.

oguz-ismail 2y ago
And you think you've done it?
JelteF 2y ago
Wait... Did you misunderstand this comment? Or are you saying grep caught up with ripgrep now?
- burntsushi 2y ago
  I'm agreeing with them. Some folks told me I should have improved grep instead of building my own thing.
danpalmer 2y ago
FWIW, I think the reason I'm conflicted is probably a similar reason to why you made a separate new thing. Overcoming the inertia and ways of doing things, or proposing widespread changes, often doesn't go down well with existing maintainers – for very valid reasons. I probably wouldn't want to go into the grep project and suggest rearchitecting it, and I can see why the Ruff developers didn't want to go into projects like Flake8 and Pylint to do the same. But that doesn't stop me from feeling that there were things lost in this process and wishing for a better outcome.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tialaramex 2y ago
A huge advantage of going your own way is that you don't need to address an audience you think are just wrong. When this happens periodically (rather than, every other week) you also get the original GNU advantage which is you can revisit an old tool but knowing what you know now, for example today "everybody" has DVCS, and so ripgrep checks for the .gitignore file.

danpalmer 2y ago

Yeah it's somewhat ideological, I think open source software is better for society when built as a community project than built and controlled by a VC funded company. I don't think you could get flake8 to be as fast as Ruff, but I think you could improve it to be within an order of magnitude, and honestly that's plenty good enough. There are a lot of low hanging fruit, particularly around caching. I'd push back on there being no chance of being "as good as" Ruff, because "good" is not just speed. Ruff is _not complete_, if you want all the features and linters, you still need Flake8, or you have to sacrifice some. It's also not publicly extensible, and not written in Python, both of which are fair choices but I think deviate from the ideal scenario here.