3 ms·

> unfair competition and Chinese subsidizes > Free market Pick one.

johnea 2y ago
Because, of course, the major US automakers never ever received any governemtn subsidies, ever. They just used them to be able to continue to make gas guzlers, instead of electrifying, like in China. Just search for: US auto industry bailouts And choose your reference...
- Freedom2 2y ago
  As someone who typically only buys American-made goods, the amount of government money that US automakers receive is miniscule compared to what China automakers get. Unfortunately due to the lack of transparency, I doubt we can get actual numbers from Chinese EV companies, but in the land of the free we're able to at least paint an accurate picture.
  - datavirtue 2y ago
    Please paint it.
  - johnea 2y ago
    If the Chinese govt gives money to EV makers doesn't that mean you can buy an EV cheaper? Given 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles, we're not free to buy a $25K EV... If the concern is security, instead of tariffs, why aren't we outlawing surveillance of users and private data telemetry by _any_ automaker, or any product maker?
- Aloisius 2y ago
  Ok? My point stands. It's still not a free market with subsidies limited to domestic manufacturers. A country dumping money into an industry in order to undercut foreign competition should be punished. I don't care if it is the US, China or whoever. One can not let it stand or the market distortion will drive domestic competitors out of business at which point they'll be able to hike up prices. For something like the auto industry with high capital costs to get into, one might never recover.
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    >Ok? My point stands. It's still not a free market with subsidies limited to domestic manufacturers. Chinese gave Tesla subsidies as well and a massive amount of valuable land near Shanghai for their Giga plant. They also sped up construction regulation approvals for Tesla.
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      Tesla's domestic Chinese manufacturing received subsidies. That still has the effect of benefiting domestic over foreign production and should be punished. The fact that ultimately Tesla is an American company does not matter as the effect of shifting manufacturing due to market manipulation remains. The kind of non-preferential subsides I was referring to are generally purchase subsidies without any origin requirements. For instance, EV purchase rebates in the US aren't restricted to domestically manufactured vehicles.
      - aurareturn 2y ago
        US EV subsidies allowed Tesla to survive, which allowed it to become the dominant EV player in the world.

Because, of course, the major US automakers never ever received any governemtn subsidies, ever. They just used them to be able to continue to make gas guzlers, instead of electrifying, like in China. Just search for: US auto industry bailouts And choose your reference...

Freedom2 2y ago
As someone who typically only buys American-made goods, the amount of government money that US automakers receive is miniscule compared to what China automakers get. Unfortunately due to the lack of transparency, I doubt we can get actual numbers from Chinese EV companies, but in the land of the free we're able to at least paint an accurate picture.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  Please paint it.
- johnea 2y ago
  If the Chinese govt gives money to EV makers doesn't that mean you can buy an EV cheaper? Given 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles, we're not free to buy a $25K EV... If the concern is security, instead of tariffs, why aren't we outlawing surveillance of users and private data telemetry by _any_ automaker, or any product maker?
Aloisius 2y ago
Ok? My point stands. It's still not a free market with subsidies limited to domestic manufacturers. A country dumping money into an industry in order to undercut foreign competition should be punished. I don't care if it is the US, China or whoever. One can not let it stand or the market distortion will drive domestic competitors out of business at which point they'll be able to hike up prices. For something like the auto industry with high capital costs to get into, one might never recover.
- aurareturn 2y ago
  >Ok? My point stands. It's still not a free market with subsidies limited to domestic manufacturers. Chinese gave Tesla subsidies as well and a massive amount of valuable land near Shanghai for their Giga plant. They also sped up construction regulation approvals for Tesla.
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    Tesla's domestic Chinese manufacturing received subsidies. That still has the effect of benefiting domestic over foreign production and should be punished. The fact that ultimately Tesla is an American company does not matter as the effect of shifting manufacturing due to market manipulation remains. The kind of non-preferential subsides I was referring to are generally purchase subsidies without any origin requirements. For instance, EV purchase rebates in the US aren't restricted to domestically manufactured vehicles.
    - aurareturn 2y ago
      US EV subsidies allowed Tesla to survive, which allowed it to become the dominant EV player in the world.