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"I’m certain he wouldn’t be rude to my face, but he might quietly discriminate against me, say no thanks. He might not even think of it as discrimination, only

"I’m certain he wouldn’t be rude to my face, but he might quietly discriminate against me, say no thanks. He might not even think of it as discrimination, only that I don’t have what it takes." This resonates pretty strongly (and depressingly) with me being an immigrant academic in Europe who came originally from a third-world country. Even though I am one of the most productive researchers in my department, even though I studied in the best university in my country (which is mind-blowingly better than the one I'm currently in), even if I say yes to almost everything, and even if I work easily 150% what an average native colleague does, none of this matter at all. Every morning I wake up there is a new knife on my back. Opportunities just vanish transparently; pressure amounts over pressure amounts pressure; there is always that quiet, mute side look that says (without words) "if you don't like it, why don't you leave?". And what really makes this ten times worse is that the country I'm in has this almost ethereal reputation for begin some kind of paradise where everyone is super polite and calm and rational, so whenever I complain about anything it feels like I'm some kind of spoiled child. Half the time I even convince myself of that.

troad 2y ago
[flagged]
- minitech 2y ago
  going to start introducing all my straw men with “according to the Internet” and closing all my arguments with “if you downvote me it’s because you’re triggered” now, thank you for this neat trick
  - troad 2y ago
    [flagged]
faraggi 2y ago
Do you happen to live in Switzerland?
- nova77hn 2y ago
  I think it’s Sweden.
  - lnsru 2y ago
    It can be any country in Europe. Fact is that the country inside looks different than in the movies in one’s home country. Another fact is that we like the others that look like us and not like the others. In other words racism and xenophobia are real. Some people can live with that and bite back when confronted, for others occasional reminder about their origin is too much.
Xmd5a 2y ago
I worked as much as 200% more than some of my colleagues while having the lowest wage in the team. When I left, projects in my perimeter took 12x more time to develop (as assessed by a former colleague). I had a manager fired for failing to recruit me back. You're wrong in assigning the injustice you're going through to discrimination based on your ethnicity, especially in an academic context where the vast majority is pro-immigration.
- Xmd5a 2y ago
  There is no concrete example of racism in his testimony. He describes universal situations of professional rivalry ("opportunities vanish," "pressure amounts") but interprets them as implicit racism without tangible evidence. The intangibility of racism paradoxically makes it more powerful as an accusatory mechanism. Its very invisibility becomes proof of its omnipresence - the more impossible it is to prove, the more "obvious" it becomes. The vicious cycle is perfect: the absence of evidence strengthens the belief in a hidden evil. This structure mirrors the logic of primitive sacredness: an absolute but elusive evil that demands even more victims precisely because it defies empirical verification. The accused can neither defend themselves (since denial is seen as proof of guilt) nor confess (as the evil is portrayed as unconscious). Some relevant Proust: >"Miss Vinteuil might not have thought evil was such a rare state, so extraordinary, so exotic, such a restful place to emigrate to, had she been able to discern in herself, as in everyone else, that indifference to the suffering we cause which, whatever other names we give it, is the terrible and permanent form of cruelty."
  - low_tech_love 2y ago
    Racism (if done in a “smart” way) is impossible to prove. Does that mean that we should then not try to detect it or speak up against it, simply because we will never be able to objectively back up our claims? And if yes, then does that not strengthen even more the case (and benefits) for being a racist? Also I believe it’s disingenuous to treat racism as such a concrete, objective term. Maybe they are preying on me (and other people like me, which there are objectively many) simply because I’m the weak link in the system? But if my weakness stems from me being an immigrant (because I have no safety net, no family around me or a shoulder to cry on, because I don’t know the system well enough and thus I’m more likely to accept injustice and stay quiet) is that “racism”? Or “prejudice”?
mpak_ 2y ago
You described the advantages of exploiting you for your boss. Your colleagues will only treat you worse because of these points. And you think because of your university someone have to like you or what?
- low_tech_love 2y ago
  I would like to believe that my production output would speak for itself in an environment where supposedly we should care about that. But like you said, honest work will only get you treated worse; natives around me are surfing the benefits of the state and laughing away the days, while I cry myself to 4h of sleep everyday. So yeah, you’re right, it’s a war. I just wish it wasn’t. And nobody has to “like” me, where did I even hint at that? I’m talking about professional respect; you know, the same I give to the people around me.

troad 2y ago

[flagged]

minitech 2y ago
going to start introducing all my straw men with “according to the Internet” and closing all my arguments with “if you downvote me it’s because you’re triggered” now, thank you for this neat trick
- troad 2y ago
  [flagged]

faraggi 2y ago

Do you happen to live in Switzerland?

nova77hn 2y ago
I think it’s Sweden.
- lnsru 2y ago
  It can be any country in Europe. Fact is that the country inside looks different than in the movies in one’s home country. Another fact is that we like the others that look like us and not like the others. In other words racism and xenophobia are real. Some people can live with that and bite back when confronted, for others occasional reminder about their origin is too much.

Xmd5a 2y ago

I worked as much as 200% more than some of my colleagues while having the lowest wage in the team. When I left, projects in my perimeter took 12x more time to develop (as assessed by a former colleague). I had a manager fired for failing to recruit me back. You're wrong in assigning the injustice you're going through to discrimination based on your ethnicity, especially in an academic context where the vast majority is pro-immigration.

Xmd5a 2y ago
There is no concrete example of racism in his testimony. He describes universal situations of professional rivalry ("opportunities vanish," "pressure amounts") but interprets them as implicit racism without tangible evidence. The intangibility of racism paradoxically makes it more powerful as an accusatory mechanism. Its very invisibility becomes proof of its omnipresence - the more impossible it is to prove, the more "obvious" it becomes. The vicious cycle is perfect: the absence of evidence strengthens the belief in a hidden evil. This structure mirrors the logic of primitive sacredness: an absolute but elusive evil that demands even more victims precisely because it defies empirical verification. The accused can neither defend themselves (since denial is seen as proof of guilt) nor confess (as the evil is portrayed as unconscious). Some relevant Proust: >"Miss Vinteuil might not have thought evil was such a rare state, so extraordinary, so exotic, such a restful place to emigrate to, had she been able to discern in herself, as in everyone else, that indifference to the suffering we cause which, whatever other names we give it, is the terrible and permanent form of cruelty."
- low_tech_love 2y ago
  Racism (if done in a “smart” way) is impossible to prove. Does that mean that we should then not try to detect it or speak up against it, simply because we will never be able to objectively back up our claims? And if yes, then does that not strengthen even more the case (and benefits) for being a racist? Also I believe it’s disingenuous to treat racism as such a concrete, objective term. Maybe they are preying on me (and other people like me, which there are objectively many) simply because I’m the weak link in the system? But if my weakness stems from me being an immigrant (because I have no safety net, no family around me or a shoulder to cry on, because I don’t know the system well enough and thus I’m more likely to accept injustice and stay quiet) is that “racism”? Or “prejudice”?

mpak_ 2y ago

You described the advantages of exploiting you for your boss. Your colleagues will only treat you worse because of these points. And you think because of your university someone have to like you or what?

low_tech_love 2y ago
I would like to believe that my production output would speak for itself in an environment where supposedly we should care about that. But like you said, honest work will only get you treated worse; natives around me are surfing the benefits of the state and laughing away the days, while I cry myself to 4h of sleep everyday. So yeah, you’re right, it’s a war. I just wish it wasn’t. And nobody has to “like” me, where did I even hint at that? I’m talking about professional respect; you know, the same I give to the people around me.