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Tellingly, this pull request is coming from a Bambu Lab employee. I think the OrcaSlicer maintainers should tell Bambu Lab to pound sand with this change.

iLoveOncall 2y ago
> I think the OrcaSlicer maintainers should tell Bambu Lab to pound sand with this change. Hum, the alternative is OrcaSlicer stops working with Bambu printers...
- ipv6ipv4 2y ago
  You mean Bambu Lab broke compatibility with OrcaSlicer and every other slicer out there. I don't know if the OrcaSlicer maintainers feel this way. But if they feel that Bambu Lab is stabbing them in the back, they don't have to jump when Bambu Lab tells them to (that's pretty much the raison d'être of open source).
  - iLoveOncall 2y ago
    > But if they feel that Bambu Lab is stabbing them in the back, they don't have to jump when Bambu Lab tells them to (that's pretty much the raison d'être of open source). The raison d'être of Orca Slicer is to slice files for 3D printers. They don't manufacture printers. They have no raison d'être if they don't support one of the major players in the 3D printing space.
    - ipv6ipv4 2y ago
      OrcaSlicer is sponsored by Qidi and BigTree Tech. If anything, Bambu Lab is taking them for a ride, like it is taking the rest of the open source community for a ride. It's clear you like your Bambu Lab printer/s. But I think you are letting it cloud your judgement. Bambu Lab is being predatory here.
      - parasubvert 2y ago
        Bambu Lab isn't being predatory. They're making a sensible change to their security. But, because people don't understand security technology tradeoffs, everything becomes a conspiracy.
        ipv6ipv4 2y ago
        If this were about security, it wouldn't matter what piece of software was implementing the well documented security protocol. BambuSlicer, or OrcaSlicer, it would be all the same because the underlying protocol would be the security guarantee. This is rudimentary security tradecraft. Bambu Lab is introducing something else. Most charitably, it could be described as security through obscurity, which is never secure. More realistically, Bambu Lab is introducing vendor lock-in under the pretext of security. Vendor lock-in is what this change actually achieves.
        parasubvert 2y ago
        Controlling the software lifecycle of a client library or executable, to be able to update its x509 certs as part of an upgrade cycle, is ... not security through obscurity. It's pretty standard practice, especially if your customer base knows very little about maintianing certs/keys. It's about a vendor trying to control an experience for its users balancing its UX and maintenance costs. There's no real vendor lock-in here beyond the usual conspiracy "Bambu Lab is better therefore they're evil unless they give it all away for free to their competition", that's a pile of nonsense. Orca Slicer and 3rd party slicers will continue to work with the new approach if they can work out the details of the PR that uses Bambu Connect.
        ipv6ipv4 2y ago
        Somehow you can securely access your bank account with any browser of your choosing, and not a bank provided browser, but 3D printers need obscure proprietary security protocols to be secure. That doesn't make sense.
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    I'm guessing most of OrcaSlicer's users are using bambu printers and if they upgrade to the firmware that requires bambu connect it's quite likely that the OrcaSlicer maintainers will have some interest in keeping the slicer working. The alternative is that users have to manually use bambu connect and that seems inferior to what the PR enables.
    - ipv6ipv4 2y ago
      > I'm guessing most of OrcaSlicer's users are using bambu printers and if they upgrade to the firmware that requires bambu connect it's quite likely that the OrcaSlicer maintainers will have some interest in keeping the slicer working. Yes. That's where the maintainers need to decide if they are Bambu Lab's lackeys or if they have a say in their beloved project. Part of that is thinking about at what point the project becomes pointless as a meaningful BambuSlicer alternative. > The alternative is that users have to manually use bambu connect and that seems inferior to what the PR enables. Everything is going to be inferior to using BambuSlicer. That is Bambu's real intent. The OrcaSlicer maintainers probably have the most leverage (what little there may be) on Bambu Lab. I think that is why Bambu Lab is keen to offer the PR on GitHub. The maintainers should exercise whatever leverage they have while they still can.
      - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
        > Yes. That's where the maintainers need to decide if they are Bambu Lab's lackeys or if they have a say in their beloved project. I understand your anger, but I don't think that properly describes the situation. As a maintainer of an open source project your users are who you are about. If your users want support for bambu connect, then you are likely to implement it. Whatever Bambu does is whatever Bambu does, you need to accept it. > Part of that is thinking about at what point the project becomes pointless as a meaningful BambuSlicer alternative. Why would OrcaSlicer become pointless if it supports Bambu Connect? It also supports the Bambu network plugin. > Everything is going to be inferior to using BambuSlicer. That is Bambu's real intent. What would Bambu's motivation be to do that? I don't think they would have built Bambu Connect if the goal is not to support third party slicers to directly send things to the printer. Note that most 3d printers on the market didn't or still don't have integration into slicers.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  > Hum, the alternative is OrcaSlicer stops working with Bambu printers... Which is fine, no? Plenty of other good printers available.
  - parasubvert 2y ago
    Um no? First, Bambu is the best, by far. Secondly, Orca Slicer is a fork of Bambu Studio and the vast majority of its users are Bambu customers that want extra features.
    - sho_hn 2y ago
      > Bambu is the best, by far. Nah, this is influencer-generated bro science sentiment. They do nothing special, and hardly never come out on top in any serious independent print quality tests. Their primary competitive advantage right now the AMS bundle being very competitively priced.
- easygenes 2y ago
  OrcaSlicer is a fork of Bambu's slicer. It defeats the whole impetus of the project to not support Bambu Lab printers.
  - geerlingguy 2y ago
    Orca is used for a number of other printers too — and don't forget Bambu Slicer is a fork of Prusa Slicer is a fork of Slic3r... it's open source forks all the way down that rabbit hole!

iLoveOncall 2y ago

> I think the OrcaSlicer maintainers should tell Bambu Lab to pound sand with this change. Hum, the alternative is OrcaSlicer stops working with Bambu printers...

ipv6ipv4 2y ago
You mean Bambu Lab broke compatibility with OrcaSlicer and every other slicer out there. I don't know if the OrcaSlicer maintainers feel this way. But if they feel that Bambu Lab is stabbing them in the back, they don't have to jump when Bambu Lab tells them to (that's pretty much the raison d'être of open source).
- iLoveOncall 2y ago
  > But if they feel that Bambu Lab is stabbing them in the back, they don't have to jump when Bambu Lab tells them to (that's pretty much the raison d'être of open source). The raison d'être of Orca Slicer is to slice files for 3D printers. They don't manufacture printers. They have no raison d'être if they don't support one of the major players in the 3D printing space.
  - ipv6ipv4 2y ago
    OrcaSlicer is sponsored by Qidi and BigTree Tech. If anything, Bambu Lab is taking them for a ride, like it is taking the rest of the open source community for a ride. It's clear you like your Bambu Lab printer/s. But I think you are letting it cloud your judgement. Bambu Lab is being predatory here.
    - parasubvert 2y ago
      Bambu Lab isn't being predatory. They're making a sensible change to their security. But, because people don't understand security technology tradeoffs, everything becomes a conspiracy.
      - ipv6ipv4 2y ago
        If this were about security, it wouldn't matter what piece of software was implementing the well documented security protocol. BambuSlicer, or OrcaSlicer, it would be all the same because the underlying protocol would be the security guarantee. This is rudimentary security tradecraft. Bambu Lab is introducing something else. Most charitably, it could be described as security through obscurity, which is never secure. More realistically, Bambu Lab is introducing vendor lock-in under the pretext of security. Vendor lock-in is what this change actually achieves.
        parasubvert 2y ago
        Controlling the software lifecycle of a client library or executable, to be able to update its x509 certs as part of an upgrade cycle, is ... not security through obscurity. It's pretty standard practice, especially if your customer base knows very little about maintianing certs/keys. It's about a vendor trying to control an experience for its users balancing its UX and maintenance costs. There's no real vendor lock-in here beyond the usual conspiracy "Bambu Lab is better therefore they're evil unless they give it all away for free to their competition", that's a pile of nonsense. Orca Slicer and 3rd party slicers will continue to work with the new approach if they can work out the details of the PR that uses Bambu Connect.
        ipv6ipv4 2y ago
        Somehow you can securely access your bank account with any browser of your choosing, and not a bank provided browser, but 3D printers need obscure proprietary security protocols to be secure. That doesn't make sense.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  I'm guessing most of OrcaSlicer's users are using bambu printers and if they upgrade to the firmware that requires bambu connect it's quite likely that the OrcaSlicer maintainers will have some interest in keeping the slicer working. The alternative is that users have to manually use bambu connect and that seems inferior to what the PR enables.
  - ipv6ipv4 2y ago
    > I'm guessing most of OrcaSlicer's users are using bambu printers and if they upgrade to the firmware that requires bambu connect it's quite likely that the OrcaSlicer maintainers will have some interest in keeping the slicer working. Yes. That's where the maintainers need to decide if they are Bambu Lab's lackeys or if they have a say in their beloved project. Part of that is thinking about at what point the project becomes pointless as a meaningful BambuSlicer alternative. > The alternative is that users have to manually use bambu connect and that seems inferior to what the PR enables. Everything is going to be inferior to using BambuSlicer. That is Bambu's real intent. The OrcaSlicer maintainers probably have the most leverage (what little there may be) on Bambu Lab. I think that is why Bambu Lab is keen to offer the PR on GitHub. The maintainers should exercise whatever leverage they have while they still can.
    - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
      > Yes. That's where the maintainers need to decide if they are Bambu Lab's lackeys or if they have a say in their beloved project. I understand your anger, but I don't think that properly describes the situation. As a maintainer of an open source project your users are who you are about. If your users want support for bambu connect, then you are likely to implement it. Whatever Bambu does is whatever Bambu does, you need to accept it. > Part of that is thinking about at what point the project becomes pointless as a meaningful BambuSlicer alternative. Why would OrcaSlicer become pointless if it supports Bambu Connect? It also supports the Bambu network plugin. > Everything is going to be inferior to using BambuSlicer. That is Bambu's real intent. What would Bambu's motivation be to do that? I don't think they would have built Bambu Connect if the goal is not to support third party slicers to directly send things to the printer. Note that most 3d printers on the market didn't or still don't have integration into slicers.
sho_hn 2y ago
> Hum, the alternative is OrcaSlicer stops working with Bambu printers... Which is fine, no? Plenty of other good printers available.
- parasubvert 2y ago
  Um no? First, Bambu is the best, by far. Secondly, Orca Slicer is a fork of Bambu Studio and the vast majority of its users are Bambu customers that want extra features.
  - sho_hn 2y ago
    > Bambu is the best, by far. Nah, this is influencer-generated bro science sentiment. They do nothing special, and hardly never come out on top in any serious independent print quality tests. Their primary competitive advantage right now the AMS bundle being very competitively priced.
easygenes 2y ago
OrcaSlicer is a fork of Bambu's slicer. It defeats the whole impetus of the project to not support Bambu Lab printers.
- geerlingguy 2y ago
  Orca is used for a number of other printers too — and don't forget Bambu Slicer is a fork of Prusa Slicer is a fork of Slic3r... it's open source forks all the way down that rabbit hole!