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> The EV market opened an enormous opportunity, where suddenly every single manufacturer had to start propulsion from zero, the advantage of decades of ICE rese

> The EV market opened an enormous opportunity, where suddenly every single manufacturer had to start propulsion from zero, the advantage of decades of ICE research instantly vanished. That's not true though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 U.S. automakers refused to invest and plan for the future while they could continue to profit off their cash cow. Now they are behind because of their negligence.

constantcrying 2y ago
>That's not true though. It is. Or do you think that any of the engineers at GM knew how to make EVs, because 25 years ago they designed one once? The advantage of that was completely negligible and easily outweighed by Chinese companies being in direct contact with e.g. battery manufacturers. >U.S. automakers refused to invest and plan for the future while they could continue to profit off their cash cow. Which contradicts what I said how?
- rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
  My point was that U.S. automakers did not have to start from scratch with regards to propulsion as you claimed.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    But they had to start from scratch. How many engineers who know how to build EV motors do you think where sitting around at GM between 1996 and 2020 doing nothing? Exactly zero. Do you think GM has been developing EV motors and batteries since 1996 and just never used them for anything? That is ridiculous. All of the people there had to start from zero when designing EVs. There is no advantage of having had an idea but abandoning it 25 years ago. If anything Chinese EV companies had an advantage as getting specialist in producing batteries and motors is surely easier if your country is one of the biggest manufacturers. What of course is true is that GM could have had 25 years of development advantage, but chose to abandon that idea. This does not conflict at all with my point that they did not have that advantage, as they did not continue to make EVs.
    - rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
      You're forgetting about HEV and PHEV that were/are in development in the interim. So yes, U.S. automakers did have electric propulsion and battery engineers for some time. Again, the U.S. automakers were negligent in planning for the future and are now laughably behind.
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        >Again, the U.S. automakers were negligent in planning for the future and are now laughably behind. That was my original point though?
        rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
        You disagreed on the history of events by saying automakers globally started at the same point with regarding EVs and that's why in part China is so far ahead. I corrected you, that's it's worse than that because the U.S. automakers weren't even starting at 0 in comparison (which you doubled-down on that they were for whatever reason). They had the advantage to be ahead.
      - datavirtue 2y ago
        Tesla has done nothing but EVs and is laughably behind BYD. In fact, every US automotive manufacturer went to China and pretended that they wouldn't be able to catch up to them (racist) while teaching them how to build automobiles. Now everyone (especially Tesla) is crying foul and trying to invoke protectionism.
xiphias2 2y ago
It was all creative disruption, Kodak again. It's easier to act as EVs are not coming than change the old investor base.

constantcrying 2y ago

>That's not true though. It is. Or do you think that any of the engineers at GM knew how to make EVs, because 25 years ago they designed one once? The advantage of that was completely negligible and easily outweighed by Chinese companies being in direct contact with e.g. battery manufacturers. >U.S. automakers refused to invest and plan for the future while they could continue to profit off their cash cow. Which contradicts what I said how?

rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
My point was that U.S. automakers did not have to start from scratch with regards to propulsion as you claimed.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  But they had to start from scratch. How many engineers who know how to build EV motors do you think where sitting around at GM between 1996 and 2020 doing nothing? Exactly zero. Do you think GM has been developing EV motors and batteries since 1996 and just never used them for anything? That is ridiculous. All of the people there had to start from zero when designing EVs. There is no advantage of having had an idea but abandoning it 25 years ago. If anything Chinese EV companies had an advantage as getting specialist in producing batteries and motors is surely easier if your country is one of the biggest manufacturers. What of course is true is that GM could have had 25 years of development advantage, but chose to abandon that idea. This does not conflict at all with my point that they did not have that advantage, as they did not continue to make EVs.
  - rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
    You're forgetting about HEV and PHEV that were/are in development in the interim. So yes, U.S. automakers did have electric propulsion and battery engineers for some time. Again, the U.S. automakers were negligent in planning for the future and are now laughably behind.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      >Again, the U.S. automakers were negligent in planning for the future and are now laughably behind. That was my original point though?
      - rUsHeYaFuBu 2y ago
        You disagreed on the history of events by saying automakers globally started at the same point with regarding EVs and that's why in part China is so far ahead. I corrected you, that's it's worse than that because the U.S. automakers weren't even starting at 0 in comparison (which you doubled-down on that they were for whatever reason). They had the advantage to be ahead.
    - datavirtue 2y ago
      Tesla has done nothing but EVs and is laughably behind BYD. In fact, every US automotive manufacturer went to China and pretended that they wouldn't be able to catch up to them (racist) while teaching them how to build automobiles. Now everyone (especially Tesla) is crying foul and trying to invoke protectionism.

xiphias2 2y ago

It was all creative disruption, Kodak again. It's easier to act as EVs are not coming than change the old investor base.