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My wishlist for ROCm support is actually supporting the cards they already released. But that's not going to happen. By the time an (consumer) AMD device is su

My wishlist for ROCm support is actually supporting the cards they already released. But that's not going to happen. By the time an (consumer) AMD device is supported by ROCm it'll only have a few years of ROCm support left before support is removed. Lifespan of support for AMD cards with ROCm is very short. You end up having to use Vulkan which is not optimized, of course, and a bit slower. I once bought an AMD GPU 2 years after release and 1 year after I bought it ROCm support was dropped.

slavik81 2y ago
FWIW, every ROCm library currently in the Debian 13 'main' and Ubuntu 24.04 'universe' repository has been built for and tested on every discrete consumer GPU architecture since Vega. Not every package is available that way, but the ones that are have been tested on and work on Vega 10, Vega 20, RDNA 1, 2 and 3. Note that these are not the packages distributed by AMD. They are the packages in the OS repositories. Not all the ROCm packages are there, but most of them are. The biggest downside is that some of them are a little old and don't have all the latest performance optimizations for RDNA 3. Those operating systems will be around for the next decade, so that should at least provide one option for users of older hardware.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mappu 2y ago
  I can confirm this, Debian's ROCm distribution worked great for me on some "unsupported" cards.
- buildbot 2y ago
  Packages existing and the software actually working are very different things. You can run rocm on unsupported GPUs like a 780m, but as soon as you hit an issue you are out of luck. And you’ll hit an issue. For example, my 780m gets 1-2 inferences from llama.cpp before dropping off the bus due to a segfault in the driver. It’s a bad enough lockup that linux can’t cleanly shutdown and will hang under hard rebooted.
  - slavik81 2y ago
    The 780m is an integrated GPU. I specified discrete GPUs because that's what I have tested and can confirm will work. I have dozens of different AMD GPUs and I personally host most of the Debian ROCm Team's continuous integration servers. Over the past year, I have worked together with other members of the Debian project to ensure that every potentially affected ROCm library is tested on every discrete consumer AMD GPU architecture since Vega whenever a new version of a package is uploaded to Debian. FWIW, Framework Computers donated a few laptops to Debian last year, which I plan to use to enable the 780m too. I just haven't had the time yet. Fedora has some patches that add support for that architecture.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
bb88 2y ago
They should have at a minimum 5 year support release cycle.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kllrnohj 2y ago
  It kinda seems like they do - 5 years would only include the RX 6xxx and 7xxx. 5 years is not very long tbh.
  - bb88 2y ago
    True but business hardware (and home for that matter) often goes on 3-5 year cycles though. At 5 years it's kinda expected hardware will get replaced.
    - Filligree 2y ago
      It doesn’t work for the first three years, so it’s two years in practice.
      - superkuh 2y ago
        And that's if you're buying bleeding edge new hardware. If you can't afford to buy it the year of release the window is even smaller.
  - suprjami 2y ago
    RX 7800 XT was supported for 15 months before being dropped. Significantly less than 5 years.
mikepurvis 2y ago
As the underdog AMD can't afford to have their efforts perceived as half-assed or a hobby or whatever. They should be moving heaven and earth to maximize their value proposition, promising and delivering on longer support horizons to demonstrate the long term value of their ecosystem.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- seanhunter 2y ago
  Honestly at this point half-assed support would be a significant step up from their historical position. The one thing they have pioneered is new tiers of fractional assedness asymptotically approaching zero.
- XorNot 2y ago
  I mean at this point my next card is going to be an nvidia. It has been a total waste of time trying to use rocm for anything machine-learning based. No one uses it. No one can use it. The card I have is somehow always not quite supported.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    We go from: Support is coming in three months! To This card is ancient and will be no longer developed for. Buy our brand new card released in three months! Every damned time.
7speter 2y ago
I have a mi50 with 16gb of hbm thats collecting dust (its Vega bases, so it can play games, I guess) because I don’t want to bother setting up a system with Ubuntu 20.04, the last version of Ubuntu the last version of ROCM that supported the MI50 works on. With situations like this, its not hard to see why Nvidia totally dominates in the compute/ai market.
- slavik81 2y ago
  The MI50 may be considered deprecated in newer releases, but it seems to work fine in my experience. I have a Radeon VII in my workstation (which shares the same architecture) and I host the MI60 test machine for Debian AI Team. I haven't had any trouble with them.
  - 7speter 2y ago
    I don’t think the mi60 has reached deprecated status yet (the last time I look at prices for the mi50 and mi60, the mi60 was something like 3x expensive, and I think thats because its still officially supported), but I’ll check this all out. Thanks.
    - slavik81 2y ago
      The MI60 is basically just a faster MI50 with more memory. They were deprecated together. It's plausible there could be small firmware or driver differences that cause issues in one but not the other, but I think that's unlikely.
  - nalllar 2y ago
    I had the impression Debian applied patches that widen arch support from what upstream officially supports, including for the MI50/MI60. https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team/rocm-hipamd/-/raw/d6d20142c37e1dff820950b16ff8f0523241d935/debian/patches/0026-extend-hip-isa-compatibility-check.patch https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team/rocm-hipamd/-/raw/d6d2014... (one patch of many)
    - 2y ago
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
AMD has separate architectures for GPU compute (Instinct https://www.amd.com/en/products/accelerators/instinct/mi300.html https://www.amd.com/en/products/accelerators/instinct/mi300....) and consumer video (Radeon). AMD are merging the architectures (UDNA) like nVidia but it's not going to be before 2026. (https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-zen-6-cpus-radeon-udna-gpus-utilize-n3e-high-end-gaming-gpus-3d-stacking-for-next-gen-halo-console-apus-rumor/ https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-zen-6-cpus-radeon-udna-gpus-u...)
- 7speter 2y ago
  You can use ROCM on consumer radeon as long as you pay more than 400 dollars for one of their gpus. Meanwhile, you can run stable diffusion with the -lowvram flag on a 3050 6gb that goes for 180 dollars
nubinetwork 2y ago
Seeing Radeon VII on the deprecation list is a little saddening, unless they start putting out more 16gb+ GPUs that aren't overly expensive...

slavik81 2y ago

FWIW, every ROCm library currently in the Debian 13 'main' and Ubuntu 24.04 'universe' repository has been built for and tested on every discrete consumer GPU architecture since Vega. Not every package is available that way, but the ones that are have been tested on and work on Vega 10, Vega 20, RDNA 1, 2 and 3. Note that these are not the packages distributed by AMD. They are the packages in the OS repositories. Not all the ROCm packages are there, but most of them are. The biggest downside is that some of them are a little old and don't have all the latest performance optimizations for RDNA 3. Those operating systems will be around for the next decade, so that should at least provide one option for users of older hardware.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mappu 2y ago
I can confirm this, Debian's ROCm distribution worked great for me on some "unsupported" cards.
buildbot 2y ago
Packages existing and the software actually working are very different things. You can run rocm on unsupported GPUs like a 780m, but as soon as you hit an issue you are out of luck. And you’ll hit an issue. For example, my 780m gets 1-2 inferences from llama.cpp before dropping off the bus due to a segfault in the driver. It’s a bad enough lockup that linux can’t cleanly shutdown and will hang under hard rebooted.
- slavik81 2y ago
  The 780m is an integrated GPU. I specified discrete GPUs because that's what I have tested and can confirm will work. I have dozens of different AMD GPUs and I personally host most of the Debian ROCm Team's continuous integration servers. Over the past year, I have worked together with other members of the Debian project to ensure that every potentially affected ROCm library is tested on every discrete consumer AMD GPU architecture since Vega whenever a new version of a package is uploaded to Debian. FWIW, Framework Computers donated a few laptops to Debian last year, which I plan to use to enable the 780m too. I just haven't had the time yet. Fedora has some patches that add support for that architecture.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

bb88 2y ago

They should have at a minimum 5 year support release cycle.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kllrnohj 2y ago
It kinda seems like they do - 5 years would only include the RX 6xxx and 7xxx. 5 years is not very long tbh.
- bb88 2y ago
  True but business hardware (and home for that matter) often goes on 3-5 year cycles though. At 5 years it's kinda expected hardware will get replaced.
  - Filligree 2y ago
    It doesn’t work for the first three years, so it’s two years in practice.
    - superkuh 2y ago
      And that's if you're buying bleeding edge new hardware. If you can't afford to buy it the year of release the window is even smaller.
- suprjami 2y ago
  RX 7800 XT was supported for 15 months before being dropped. Significantly less than 5 years.

mikepurvis 2y ago

As the underdog AMD can't afford to have their efforts perceived as half-assed or a hobby or whatever. They should be moving heaven and earth to maximize their value proposition, promising and delivering on longer support horizons to demonstrate the long term value of their ecosystem.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
seanhunter 2y ago
Honestly at this point half-assed support would be a significant step up from their historical position. The one thing they have pioneered is new tiers of fractional assedness asymptotically approaching zero.
XorNot 2y ago
I mean at this point my next card is going to be an nvidia. It has been a total waste of time trying to use rocm for anything machine-learning based. No one uses it. No one can use it. The card I have is somehow always not quite supported.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  We go from: Support is coming in three months! To This card is ancient and will be no longer developed for. Buy our brand new card released in three months! Every damned time.

7speter 2y ago

I have a mi50 with 16gb of hbm thats collecting dust (its Vega bases, so it can play games, I guess) because I don’t want to bother setting up a system with Ubuntu 20.04, the last version of Ubuntu the last version of ROCM that supported the MI50 works on. With situations like this, its not hard to see why Nvidia totally dominates in the compute/ai market.

slavik81 2y ago
The MI50 may be considered deprecated in newer releases, but it seems to work fine in my experience. I have a Radeon VII in my workstation (which shares the same architecture) and I host the MI60 test machine for Debian AI Team. I haven't had any trouble with them.
- 7speter 2y ago
  I don’t think the mi60 has reached deprecated status yet (the last time I look at prices for the mi50 and mi60, the mi60 was something like 3x expensive, and I think thats because its still officially supported), but I’ll check this all out. Thanks.
  - slavik81 2y ago
    The MI60 is basically just a faster MI50 with more memory. They were deprecated together. It's plausible there could be small firmware or driver differences that cause issues in one but not the other, but I think that's unlikely.
- nalllar 2y ago
  I had the impression Debian applied patches that widen arch support from what upstream officially supports, including for the MI50/MI60. https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team/rocm-hipamd/-/raw/d6d20142c37e1dff820950b16ff8f0523241d935/debian/patches/0026-extend-hip-isa-compatibility-check.patch https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team/rocm-hipamd/-/raw/d6d2014... (one patch of many)
  - 2y ago

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago

AMD has separate architectures for GPU compute (Instinct https://www.amd.com/en/products/accelerators/instinct/mi300.html https://www.amd.com/en/products/accelerators/instinct/mi300....) and consumer video (Radeon). AMD are merging the architectures (UDNA) like nVidia but it's not going to be before 2026. (https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-zen-6-cpus-radeon-udna-gpus-utilize-n3e-high-end-gaming-gpus-3d-stacking-for-next-gen-halo-console-apus-rumor/ https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-zen-6-cpus-radeon-udna-gpus-u...)

7speter 2y ago
You can use ROCM on consumer radeon as long as you pay more than 400 dollars for one of their gpus. Meanwhile, you can run stable diffusion with the -lowvram flag on a 3050 6gb that goes for 180 dollars

nubinetwork 2y ago

Seeing Radeon VII on the deprecation list is a little saddening, unless they start putting out more 16gb+ GPUs that aren't overly expensive...