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My guess is there are two possibilities as to what's going on: * Many tech pioneers and leaders deep down felt an animosity towards supporting people who didn'

by bryant 2y ago

My guess is there are two possibilities as to what's going on: * Many tech pioneers and leaders deep down felt an animosity towards supporting people who didn't fit the mold and finally feel free to express it (the worst-case outcome), and/or * Many tech pioneers and leaders wish to continue supporting those who don't fit the mold but feel their own status threatened by figures with nearly infinite power[0] who disagree. The former are simply the intolerant coming up for air. The latter exhibit a cowardice, though there's a subpoint to that second bullet: there could be some in this crowd who prefer to conform to but then dismantle the power structures enabling hatred from within, but these people likely won't be known for a while, and it'll be difficult to predict who's acting subversively in this way. Though given PG's narrowly scoped essay, there's a reasonable chance that this is his footing. The best people can do is assume the least-worst case - the cowardice - and instead seek to either craft themselves as the people they wish to see... and/or protect oneself from the rising tides of hatred. [0] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf

_1tem 2y ago
Or maybe the world is simply returning to the way it has been for pretty much all of recorded history. Wars, male dominance, two fixed genders, oligarchs and barons and racism is the norm for all human beings since forever. “Wokeness” is a very recent anomaly.
- tclancy 2y ago
  You probably need to read more history, and maybe challenge yourself to find sources, if you think those things were always widely true everywhere.
  - _1tem 2y ago
    Even most of the world right now doesn’t care about wokeness and never has. India, the Middle East, Africa, China, Russia etc. never caught on to most woke stuff that came out of the west in the past 20 years.
    - Philpax 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
      - _1tem 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
        Philpax 2y ago
        This isn't a response to what I posted. You said that it's a recent concept without any presence in non-Western spaces. My link clearly demonstrates that's not the case.
- DasCorCor 2y ago
  goose comic Who has recorded that history?
ethbr1 2y ago
There's also a third type, that I consider to be the most likely reality given self-selected population of founders / successful leaders: - People who will amorally play to the limits of the rules if it helps them win. It doesn't matter what they personally feel, or even if they have feelings at all. They tack with whatever way the wind is blowing in order to derive the maximum benefit. E.g. the million dollar inauguration contributions That's not a lot of money for that sort of person. The point of kissing the ring is the visible action and the favor it curries, not because the kiss is dear.
- bryant 2y ago
  Yeah I don't know why I skipped this one, but given the relationships between CEOs and psychopathy I shouldn't be surprised.
- neom 2y ago
  This is lacking a lot of nuance though isn't it? You're basically saying hate the player not the game, and that isn't really useful. When you step up to the arena and decide to play a competitive sport, because of game dynamics you can only know so much about who you are playing against, so you should play. The whole philosophical theory behind capitalism is literally progress emerges from the conflict and tension created between it's functional systems. If you want to get down to blaming humans, you're going to hav to go over to Adam Smiths or Joseph Schumpeter.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    I'm saying it's debatable judging the player if they stay inside the rules as enforced. I definitely hate the game.
michaelt 2y ago
> Many tech pioneers and leaders wish to continue supporting those who don't fit the mold but feel their own status threatened by figures with nearly infinite power[0] who disagree. If only tech had some sort of rugged frontiersmen who weren't afraid of a bit of hardship. Davy Crockett types, pushing boundaries and standing firm under siege no matter the personal cost. We could call them "pioneers" - if any existed.
tclancy 2y ago
Yeah, there’s probably some Pulling The Ladder up like my Irish immigrant ancestors did. At one point everyone in the discussion was a nerdy social outcast. Now that they can afford to hang out with the Beautiful People, time to be as agreeable as possible.

by bryant 2y ago

_1tem 2y ago

Or maybe the world is simply returning to the way it has been for pretty much all of recorded history. Wars, male dominance, two fixed genders, oligarchs and barons and racism is the norm for all human beings since forever. “Wokeness” is a very recent anomaly.

tclancy 2y ago
You probably need to read more history, and maybe challenge yourself to find sources, if you think those things were always widely true everywhere.
- _1tem 2y ago
  Even most of the world right now doesn’t care about wokeness and never has. India, the Middle East, Africa, China, Russia etc. never caught on to most woke stuff that came out of the west in the past 20 years.
  - Philpax 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history
    - _1tem 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
      - Philpax 2y ago
        This isn't a response to what I posted. You said that it's a recent concept without any presence in non-Western spaces. My link clearly demonstrates that's not the case.
DasCorCor 2y ago
goose comic Who has recorded that history?

ethbr1 2y ago

There's also a third type, that I consider to be the most likely reality given self-selected population of founders / successful leaders: - People who will amorally play to the limits of the rules if it helps them win. It doesn't matter what they personally feel, or even if they have feelings at all. They tack with whatever way the wind is blowing in order to derive the maximum benefit. E.g. the million dollar inauguration contributions That's not a lot of money for that sort of person. The point of kissing the ring is the visible action and the favor it curries, not because the kiss is dear.

bryant 2y ago
Yeah I don't know why I skipped this one, but given the relationships between CEOs and psychopathy I shouldn't be surprised.
neom 2y ago
This is lacking a lot of nuance though isn't it? You're basically saying hate the player not the game, and that isn't really useful. When you step up to the arena and decide to play a competitive sport, because of game dynamics you can only know so much about who you are playing against, so you should play. The whole philosophical theory behind capitalism is literally progress emerges from the conflict and tension created between it's functional systems. If you want to get down to blaming humans, you're going to hav to go over to Adam Smiths or Joseph Schumpeter.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  I'm saying it's debatable judging the player if they stay inside the rules as enforced. I definitely hate the game.

michaelt 2y ago

> Many tech pioneers and leaders wish to continue supporting those who don't fit the mold but feel their own status threatened by figures with nearly infinite power[0] who disagree. If only tech had some sort of rugged frontiersmen who weren't afraid of a bit of hardship. Davy Crockett types, pushing boundaries and standing firm under siege no matter the personal cost. We could call them "pioneers" - if any existed.

tclancy 2y ago

Yeah, there’s probably some Pulling The Ladder up like my Irish immigrant ancestors did. At one point everyone in the discussion was a nerdy social outcast. Now that they can afford to hang out with the Beautiful People, time to be as agreeable as possible.