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Yeah, so, any chance you could do a monthly-or-so post that explains, in legal terms (of course!) why referring to an entire, diverse bunch of people as "H1Bs"

Yeah, so, any chance you could do a monthly-or-so post that explains, in legal terms (of course!) why referring to an entire, diverse bunch of people as "H1Bs" (which, as you know, is just a visa class and pretty much, as you also know, the only path to legally entering the US as an immigrant without family ties or, well, the future-Head-Guy-or-one-of-his-cronies fancying you) is, like, a crime against humanity? Because that has always been a trope amongst HN commenters (a large subset of which is supposed to be future HN founders), and it bothers me. A lot.

proberts 2y ago
I don't agree with that view/trope since my clients (granted, a limited dataset) are hiring H-1B workers because they believe that they are the best candidates.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  I am not as anti H1B as the original poster and have no animosity toward my H1B visa coworkers. But let’s be real. There are thousands of unemployed citizens that could do the work just as well especially when you consider how many work for WITCH companies.
- keybored 2y ago
  What “best” means could be unpacked. - Just best for the job - Best retention since the visa is tied to the employer - Best price, i.e. lower wage All of that amounts to “best” without outright lying. The bell curve (people tend to narrowly focus on IQ when it comes to “best for the job”) should look the same everywhere. So it seems a bit roundabout to look all over the world when you have a “culture fit” in your own backyard. So it does seem to just come back to mutually beneficial exploitation of the employee. But the clients never have to talk about it in such plain terms.
trevorhinesley 2y ago
It sounds like that term (“H1Bs”) is simply shorthand for foreign citizens that are potential candidates for U.S. work via an H1B visa. Why is that bothersome?
csa 2y ago
> why referring to an entire, diverse bunch of people as "H1Bs" Even though you seem to be getting downvoted aggressively, I’m going to provide a short, good-faith reply. First, I’m not Peter, and I’m not an immigration lawyer, but I can provide insight as someone who knows and has worked with many H1Bs. Second, this thread covers the major points, imho: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1huxnn1/why_is_there_significant_pushback_against_h1b/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1huxnn1/why_is... For tech folks in particular, I think that there are two particular pain points that cause H1Bs to be referred to pejoratively sometimes (which I think is what your underlying issue is with): 1. Companies like Infosys that are gaming the system aggressively, often times using dark patterns. Net loss for the economy, and unnecessary stress on the immigration system, imho. 2. Qualified Americans losing their jobs (e.g., relatively recent layoffs) and struggling to find work. Meanwhile, H1Bs remain employed and new ones are added regularly. This doesn’t pass the sniff test of “lack of talent” in the domestic market. Additionally, folks on the inside know that the reality is that either the company is gaming the hiring/h1b system and/or the company has a broken hiring process. Note that I don’t necessarily advocate for a rapid and aggressive culling of h1b workers like some do, but the h1b system could definitely use some improved oversight and/or refined regulation. It’s being abused at scale by multiple actors.
- sunshowers 2y ago
  > Qualified Americans losing their jobs (e.g., relatively recent layoffs) and struggling to find work. Meanwhile, H1Bs remain employed [...]. Why do you want to destroy market power for people on visas even further, leading to even more exploitation than exists today?
  - csa 2y ago
    > Why do you want to destroy market power for people on visas even further Under what auspices are they supposed to have market power in the first place? H1B folks are supposed to be here to make up for deficiencies in the labor market. When those deficiencies don’t exist, we don’t need to add more of those jobs. There is definitely a humane way to do this (e.g., don’t just yoink people out of jobs), but the current situation with companies claiming no qualified candidates is often farcical. > leading to even more exploitation than exists today? Imho, poor implementation and oversight of the h1b program is the cause of a much of the exploitation that exists. Right-sizing the number of h1b positions in the country based on data that’s in the ballpark of realistic is not an unreasonable ask. As I have said elsewhere, I know and have worked with many h1b folks, and I love that the program exists. That said, there’s no need to continue to allow the abusers to abuse it.

proberts 2y ago

I don't agree with that view/trope since my clients (granted, a limited dataset) are hiring H-1B workers because they believe that they are the best candidates.

scarface_74 2y ago
I am not as anti H1B as the original poster and have no animosity toward my H1B visa coworkers. But let’s be real. There are thousands of unemployed citizens that could do the work just as well especially when you consider how many work for WITCH companies.
keybored 2y ago
What “best” means could be unpacked. - Just best for the job - Best retention since the visa is tied to the employer - Best price, i.e. lower wage All of that amounts to “best” without outright lying. The bell curve (people tend to narrowly focus on IQ when it comes to “best for the job”) should look the same everywhere. So it seems a bit roundabout to look all over the world when you have a “culture fit” in your own backyard. So it does seem to just come back to mutually beneficial exploitation of the employee. But the clients never have to talk about it in such plain terms.

trevorhinesley 2y ago

It sounds like that term (“H1Bs”) is simply shorthand for foreign citizens that are potential candidates for U.S. work via an H1B visa. Why is that bothersome?

csa 2y ago

> why referring to an entire, diverse bunch of people as "H1Bs" Even though you seem to be getting downvoted aggressively, I’m going to provide a short, good-faith reply. First, I’m not Peter, and I’m not an immigration lawyer, but I can provide insight as someone who knows and has worked with many H1Bs. Second, this thread covers the major points, imho: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1huxnn1/why_is_there_significant_pushback_against_h1b/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1huxnn1/why_is... For tech folks in particular, I think that there are two particular pain points that cause H1Bs to be referred to pejoratively sometimes (which I think is what your underlying issue is with): 1. Companies like Infosys that are gaming the system aggressively, often times using dark patterns. Net loss for the economy, and unnecessary stress on the immigration system, imho. 2. Qualified Americans losing their jobs (e.g., relatively recent layoffs) and struggling to find work. Meanwhile, H1Bs remain employed and new ones are added regularly. This doesn’t pass the sniff test of “lack of talent” in the domestic market. Additionally, folks on the inside know that the reality is that either the company is gaming the hiring/h1b system and/or the company has a broken hiring process. Note that I don’t necessarily advocate for a rapid and aggressive culling of h1b workers like some do, but the h1b system could definitely use some improved oversight and/or refined regulation. It’s being abused at scale by multiple actors.

sunshowers 2y ago
> Qualified Americans losing their jobs (e.g., relatively recent layoffs) and struggling to find work. Meanwhile, H1Bs remain employed [...]. Why do you want to destroy market power for people on visas even further, leading to even more exploitation than exists today?
- csa 2y ago
  > Why do you want to destroy market power for people on visas even further Under what auspices are they supposed to have market power in the first place? H1B folks are supposed to be here to make up for deficiencies in the labor market. When those deficiencies don’t exist, we don’t need to add more of those jobs. There is definitely a humane way to do this (e.g., don’t just yoink people out of jobs), but the current situation with companies claiming no qualified candidates is often farcical. > leading to even more exploitation than exists today? Imho, poor implementation and oversight of the h1b program is the cause of a much of the exploitation that exists. Right-sizing the number of h1b positions in the country based on data that’s in the ballpark of realistic is not an unreasonable ask. As I have said elsewhere, I know and have worked with many h1b folks, and I love that the program exists. That said, there’s no need to continue to allow the abusers to abuse it.