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Modern interactive fiction is pretty amazing. I like Zork a lot, but I've never made it even halfway through the game. Knowing that you can permanently lose by

Modern interactive fiction is pretty amazing. I like Zork a lot, but I've never made it even halfway through the game. Knowing that you can permanently lose by doing certain things (does breaking the mirror count? I can't remember) puts a damper on my enthusiasm. The infocom parser is pretty good, but I sometimes run into issues where I know what I need to do, but can't get the parser to accept my commands. This happened in planetfall where I needed to get a key under a grate, but eventually gave up and looked up what the parser wanted. Some modern additions are automatic maps and fast travel so you don't get lost in an infinite labyrinth and have to write your own maps (it was fun once, but I wouldn't want to do it each game). Fast travel is nice, so I can get back somewhere without having to type N N E NE N and so on. As for this thread and more relevant comments, I had no idea the parser variables were named after the authors. HN knowledge never ceases to amaze me. I wish there was a convention or something once a year.

MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
> Modern interactive fiction is pretty amazing. Got any recommendations? Like you, I was never able to get into Zork. I really enjoyed it, until I inevitably became stuck. Hearing you say this could be permanent really seals it. It's one of those games that's more fun to recollect than to actually play.
- Eric_WVGG 2y ago
  Adam Cadre’s games are excellent. https://adamcadre.ac/if/ https://adamcadre.ac/if/
- fenomas 2y ago
  My canonical answer is "Violet" by Jeremy Freese: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b
- failrate 2y ago
  CEJ Pacian makes excellent modern IF. I recommend checking out Gunmute and Red Prince.
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  Anything by Emily Short has really good writing and prose. They vary greatly by length too. I think she mainly writes for commercial projects these days, so I haven't seen a release in awhile of just something for fun. https://ifdb.org/search?searchfor=author%3AEmily+Short https://ifdb.org/search?searchfor=author%3AEmily+Short Alabaster, Bronze, and City of Secrets were all excellent. Check out the really short Galatea to see how much parser improvement has occurred since the old Infocom days.
  - agnishom 2y ago
    I also recommend Andrew Plotkin
- spencerflem 2y ago
  If your looking for a puzzley experience, Emily Short's "Counterfeit Monkey" is consistently top rated and I found it wonderful
- bluGill 2y ago
  there is always the save restore so it is never permanent. However you can wonder around for a long time seeming to make progress only to discover it isn't possible to solve the game because of something not obvious you did a while back.
- astrange 2y ago
  My favorite short IF is Glowgrass: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=b1xy3s75cjlty973 https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=b1xy3s75cjlty973 The best regarded long one I know is Anchorhead, basically a Lovecraft story: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=op0uw1gn1tjqmjt7 https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=op0uw1gn1tjqmjt7 …these are both from 1998 so clearly I haven't been paying attention to what anyone is up to lately.
- snickerer 2y ago
  I like IF that is not about puzzles but about adventure stories and social relationships. There opened a new IF universe for me. I recommend the games of "Choice of Games" for that.
- alberto-m 2y ago
  Since each person has their own taste, I suggest to browse IFDB's recommendations (https://ifdb.org/search?searchbar=played%3Ano+willplay%3Ano+wontplay%3Ano+reviewed%3Ano+rated%3Ano https://ifdb.org/search?searchbar=played%3Ano+willplay%3Ano+...) and choosing something that piques your interest. Personally I found Violet excellent as first-time adventure. The puzzles are hard but fair, and no mapping is involved.
raldi 2y ago
If you’re a fan of the genre, Zork I is worth playing through (with hints if necessary) precisely because it’s an example (the example?) of the early explorations of the art — back when it was about, “Hmm, what we should make the game do if someone tries to break the mirror?” and then implementing a response. It wasn’t so much about finishing the game, it was about exploring the playground.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I never made it through--but then I've mostly always been more of a fan of the idea of gaming than the work of actually playing a game until the end. I did finish a few of the Infocom games generally with the help of a few (literal pre-Web) phone calls to the developer of some of those games who was a friend of mine from school. (There's even a very inside joke related to me in Planetfall. Don't ask because I won't tell.:-))
  - 7thaccount 2y ago
    Now that is a heck of a story :) Don't stand in the way of history. Tell us!
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Basically, a minor character has a name that is, to someone in the know, obviously a derivative of a playful expression that the author would regularly use on me in school. I don't actually remember the character--though, for some reason I'm thinking it was an ambassador.
danaris 2y ago
...the parser variables very much were not named after the authors. The parser variables were PRSA, PRSO, and PRSI (Parser Action, Parser direct Object, and Parser Indirect object). The mention of JW and MARC was in comments they left in lieu of nonexistent commit messages.
ChicagoDave 2y ago
I was 15yo in 1977 when our two school paper terminals connected to a Milwaukee Public Schools PDP-11 provided access to the FORTRAN version of DUNGEO, aka mainframe Zork. Memorizing the map was considered a high calling among the half dozen students who became obsessed with the games (ADVENT aka Adventure or Colossal Cave was also on the PDP). At that time, death was just a part of the puzzles of the game. Repetition was not a hindrance. Of course we did learn how to save, but you could only have one save file at a time. Then we learned how to “detach” our session (RSTS/E operating system) and rename save files as well as holding a current game’s state until we later reattached that session. Mind you this was all on green bar paper. I’m still involved in the IF community, board member of the IFTF, and will occasionally try to play Dungeon from memory. Even made a map a few years ago. https://plover.net/~dave/DungeonMap.pdf https://plover.net/~dave/DungeonMap.pdf I think any gamer worth their salt should take on the challenge. I also think Dungeon would be a great challenge for teenagers in a computer science class.
- m463 2y ago
  I had almost the exact same experience/environment in another state. It was on a vax though. and green bar paper reminds me of part of dungeon where they had the stack of listings: There is an enormous stack of line-printer paper here. It is barely readable and totally unintelligible. and <DEFINE FEEL-FREE (LOSER) <TELL "FEEL FREE, CHOMPER!"> <MEMQ ...... The rest is, alas, unintelligible (as were the implementers). the original source can be found here: https://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html https://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > At that time, death was just a part of the puzzles of the game. Repetition was not a hindrance. Some of this design philosophy continued into arcade games (where inserting a new token was profitable) and onwards to early home consoles. ("Nintendo Hard.")
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  That is one of the better maps I've seen. Thanks for the lovely historical insight! I wish these games were still popular in my youth as it would have been a blast to play with friends (although GoldenEye was fun too).
jccalhoun 2y ago
> Knowing that you can permanently lose by doing certain things (does breaking the mirror count? I can't remember) puts a damper on my enthusiasm. I ran into that with the Hitchhiker's Guide game. I dropped one item early on and got to the end and couldn't finish without it.
- coredog64 2y ago
  It’s not clear in the beginning that you need to buy the cheese sandwich and give it to the dog. So you get approximately halfway through and then need to restart from practically the beginning.

MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago

> Modern interactive fiction is pretty amazing. Got any recommendations? Like you, I was never able to get into Zork. I really enjoyed it, until I inevitably became stuck. Hearing you say this could be permanent really seals it. It's one of those games that's more fun to recollect than to actually play.

Eric_WVGG 2y ago
Adam Cadre’s games are excellent. https://adamcadre.ac/if/ https://adamcadre.ac/if/
fenomas 2y ago
My canonical answer is "Violet" by Jeremy Freese: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=4glrrfh7wrp9zz7b
failrate 2y ago
CEJ Pacian makes excellent modern IF. I recommend checking out Gunmute and Red Prince.
7thaccount 2y ago
Anything by Emily Short has really good writing and prose. They vary greatly by length too. I think she mainly writes for commercial projects these days, so I haven't seen a release in awhile of just something for fun. https://ifdb.org/search?searchfor=author%3AEmily+Short https://ifdb.org/search?searchfor=author%3AEmily+Short Alabaster, Bronze, and City of Secrets were all excellent. Check out the really short Galatea to see how much parser improvement has occurred since the old Infocom days.
- agnishom 2y ago
  I also recommend Andrew Plotkin
spencerflem 2y ago
If your looking for a puzzley experience, Emily Short's "Counterfeit Monkey" is consistently top rated and I found it wonderful
bluGill 2y ago
there is always the save restore so it is never permanent. However you can wonder around for a long time seeming to make progress only to discover it isn't possible to solve the game because of something not obvious you did a while back.
astrange 2y ago
My favorite short IF is Glowgrass: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=b1xy3s75cjlty973 https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=b1xy3s75cjlty973 The best regarded long one I know is Anchorhead, basically a Lovecraft story: https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=op0uw1gn1tjqmjt7 https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=op0uw1gn1tjqmjt7 …these are both from 1998 so clearly I haven't been paying attention to what anyone is up to lately.
snickerer 2y ago
I like IF that is not about puzzles but about adventure stories and social relationships. There opened a new IF universe for me. I recommend the games of "Choice of Games" for that.
alberto-m 2y ago
Since each person has their own taste, I suggest to browse IFDB's recommendations (https://ifdb.org/search?searchbar=played%3Ano+willplay%3Ano+wontplay%3Ano+reviewed%3Ano+rated%3Ano https://ifdb.org/search?searchbar=played%3Ano+willplay%3Ano+...) and choosing something that piques your interest. Personally I found Violet excellent as first-time adventure. The puzzles are hard but fair, and no mapping is involved.

raldi 2y ago

If you’re a fan of the genre, Zork I is worth playing through (with hints if necessary) precisely because it’s an example (the example?) of the early explorations of the art — back when it was about, “Hmm, what we should make the game do if someone tries to break the mirror?” and then implementing a response. It wasn’t so much about finishing the game, it was about exploring the playground.

ghaff 2y ago
I never made it through--but then I've mostly always been more of a fan of the idea of gaming than the work of actually playing a game until the end. I did finish a few of the Infocom games generally with the help of a few (literal pre-Web) phone calls to the developer of some of those games who was a friend of mine from school. (There's even a very inside joke related to me in Planetfall. Don't ask because I won't tell.:-))
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  Now that is a heck of a story :) Don't stand in the way of history. Tell us!
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Basically, a minor character has a name that is, to someone in the know, obviously a derivative of a playful expression that the author would regularly use on me in school. I don't actually remember the character--though, for some reason I'm thinking it was an ambassador.

danaris 2y ago

...the parser variables very much were not named after the authors. The parser variables were PRSA, PRSO, and PRSI (Parser Action, Parser direct Object, and Parser Indirect object). The mention of JW and MARC was in comments they left in lieu of nonexistent commit messages.

ChicagoDave 2y ago

I was 15yo in 1977 when our two school paper terminals connected to a Milwaukee Public Schools PDP-11 provided access to the FORTRAN version of DUNGEO, aka mainframe Zork. Memorizing the map was considered a high calling among the half dozen students who became obsessed with the games (ADVENT aka Adventure or Colossal Cave was also on the PDP). At that time, death was just a part of the puzzles of the game. Repetition was not a hindrance. Of course we did learn how to save, but you could only have one save file at a time. Then we learned how to “detach” our session (RSTS/E operating system) and rename save files as well as holding a current game’s state until we later reattached that session. Mind you this was all on green bar paper. I’m still involved in the IF community, board member of the IFTF, and will occasionally try to play Dungeon from memory. Even made a map a few years ago. https://plover.net/~dave/DungeonMap.pdf https://plover.net/~dave/DungeonMap.pdf I think any gamer worth their salt should take on the challenge. I also think Dungeon would be a great challenge for teenagers in a computer science class.

m463 2y ago
I had almost the exact same experience/environment in another state. It was on a vax though. and green bar paper reminds me of part of dungeon where they had the stack of listings: There is an enormous stack of line-printer paper here. It is barely readable and totally unintelligible. and <DEFINE FEEL-FREE (LOSER) <TELL "FEEL FREE, CHOMPER!"> <MEMQ ...... The rest is, alas, unintelligible (as were the implementers). the original source can be found here: https://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html https://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html
Terr_ 2y ago
> At that time, death was just a part of the puzzles of the game. Repetition was not a hindrance. Some of this design philosophy continued into arcade games (where inserting a new token was profitable) and onwards to early home consoles. ("Nintendo Hard.")
7thaccount 2y ago
That is one of the better maps I've seen. Thanks for the lovely historical insight! I wish these games were still popular in my youth as it would have been a blast to play with friends (although GoldenEye was fun too).

jccalhoun 2y ago

> Knowing that you can permanently lose by doing certain things (does breaking the mirror count? I can't remember) puts a damper on my enthusiasm. I ran into that with the Hitchhiker's Guide game. I dropped one item early on and got to the end and couldn't finish without it.

coredog64 2y ago
It’s not clear in the beginning that you need to buy the cheese sandwich and give it to the dog. So you get approximately halfway through and then need to restart from practically the beginning.