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This is an excellent summary of the beginning of the end of two great empires. The Arabs would destroy the Persian Sassanids completely. The Byzantine with the

This is an excellent summary of the beginning of the end of two great empires. The Arabs would destroy the Persian Sassanids completely. The Byzantine with the loss of their bread basket of Egypt and Africa would be permanently weakened. The Crusades of later centuries did not help the Byzantines. The Fourth Crusade where the Crusaders sacked Constantinople left the empire even weaker. The Fourth Crusade is why many of the treasures of Constantinople were brought to Venice.

panick21_ 2y ago
The Crusades did help quite a bit actually. They reconquered quite a bit of territory and regained a lot of influence. They would have gained far more if they had not withdrawn from Antioch. The Fourth Crusade was of course a disaster, but the only way it could have been successful was because they had weakened themselves internally so much, and that wasn't because of the crusades.
wqaatwt 2y ago
The First Crusade did help the Byzantine empire massively (after all it was largely organized by the Byzantine emperor). Komnenian restoration would have not been possible without it. Of course there was some infighting and quite a but of tension. However by Manuel I Komnenos day it seemed like it worked out pretty well. The Crusader States finally formally recognized his overlordship and West/East relations were pretty good. However the ruling class of the empire became extremely Westernized. The emperor adopted a bunch of Latin/Western practices. Married western and appointed them to high offices. There was extreme corruption and most of (even internal) trade was outsourced to Italian city states. This led to (somewhat genocidal) backlash after he died and several decades of chaos that culminated in 1204. But anyway, the Crusades did save the empire and gave it an extra century or so. Even if it didn’t work out that well..
- rawgabbit 2y ago
  Alexios I did ask the Pope for help. But I doubt what he wanted was the Normans Robert and Bohemund to enter his territory with their armed men. Alexios I had fought several battles against them and feared that they were after his throne. Alexios’ daughter mentioned her father’s fear several times. https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/AnnaComnena-Alexiad00.asp https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/AnnaComnena-Alexiad00....
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    That’s true. There was a chance of it getting slightly out of hans. It worked out reasonably well at the end. Bohemund didn’t renege on his oath of fealty to the emperor until a couple of years later after he got Antioch. Then again Byzantines choosing to entirely abandon the Crusader army during the siege of Antioch did cause quite a but of longterm enmity. So it’s possible that could have been avoided. The Normans seem to behave reasonably well in Byzantine territory during the crusade itself, though. Anna herself seems to have been really personally impressed by Bohemund himself as well.

panick21_ 2y ago

The Crusades did help quite a bit actually. They reconquered quite a bit of territory and regained a lot of influence. They would have gained far more if they had not withdrawn from Antioch. The Fourth Crusade was of course a disaster, but the only way it could have been successful was because they had weakened themselves internally so much, and that wasn't because of the crusades.

wqaatwt 2y ago

The First Crusade did help the Byzantine empire massively (after all it was largely organized by the Byzantine emperor). Komnenian restoration would have not been possible without it. Of course there was some infighting and quite a but of tension. However by Manuel I Komnenos day it seemed like it worked out pretty well. The Crusader States finally formally recognized his overlordship and West/East relations were pretty good. However the ruling class of the empire became extremely Westernized. The emperor adopted a bunch of Latin/Western practices. Married western and appointed them to high offices. There was extreme corruption and most of (even internal) trade was outsourced to Italian city states. This led to (somewhat genocidal) backlash after he died and several decades of chaos that culminated in 1204. But anyway, the Crusades did save the empire and gave it an extra century or so. Even if it didn’t work out that well..

rawgabbit 2y ago
Alexios I did ask the Pope for help. But I doubt what he wanted was the Normans Robert and Bohemund to enter his territory with their armed men. Alexios I had fought several battles against them and feared that they were after his throne. Alexios’ daughter mentioned her father’s fear several times. https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/AnnaComnena-Alexiad00.asp https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/AnnaComnena-Alexiad00....
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  That’s true. There was a chance of it getting slightly out of hans. It worked out reasonably well at the end. Bohemund didn’t renege on his oath of fealty to the emperor until a couple of years later after he got Antioch. Then again Byzantines choosing to entirely abandon the Crusader army during the siege of Antioch did cause quite a but of longterm enmity. So it’s possible that could have been avoided. The Normans seem to behave reasonably well in Byzantine territory during the crusade itself, though. Anna herself seems to have been really personally impressed by Bohemund himself as well.