5 ms·

I wonder if there's a reversed solution: using physical SIM card on devices that have only eSIMs. The use case: recent fewer versions of iPhone support only eSI

I wonder if there's a reversed solution: using physical SIM card on devices that have only eSIMs. The use case: recent fewer versions of iPhone support only eSIMs, yet we will need a physical sim when traveling in China (yes yes, one could use roaming. It's just that with a China phone number, one can do more).

lxgr 2y ago
It apparently can be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI Supposedly the people doing this at scale (for grey imports?) even de-solder the eSIM module and resell it, but I have my doubts about that part of the story.
- 05 2y ago
  Sure you can do it if there’s a module to desolder, but many phones will just use TrustZone/Secure Enclave and you’re not desoldering that…
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Are there any TrustZone based eSIM implementations yet? I've heard about plans for a couple of times but haven't been following that closely. I'm not sure if iPhones still have a physical module; it would make a lot of sense for Apple to combine the eSIM implementation with the payments secure element (I think they hold some patents to that extent), but I'm not sure if they already do that.
rendaw 2y ago
Why do you need a physical sim in China? Are there just no esim providers? Or is it something deeper?
- jtokoph 2y ago
  Apparently there aren't any eSIMs in China that include a phone number. I'm not sure why. I think this is why Apple releases the latest iPhones with physical SIM trays in China while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only
  - gruez 2y ago
    >while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only It's US that's esim only. Canada and Mexico still has physical sim + esim option if you're willing to drive across the border. https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mx/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mx/iphone/compare/
- __m 2y ago
  I only know eSIM providers for data
  - gruez 2y ago
    Most "travel esims" are data-only, but there are definitely domestic carriers/MVNOs that provide voice + text, and provide esims.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    But normally you wouldn't want to use a local SIM in China because of the great firewall. I usually buy local SIMs but China is an exception. I can't live without Wikipedia.
- emnudge 2y ago
  It’s to connect phone numbers to identities. Getting a physical sim in China involves going in person to a store where they keep your passport and a mugshot (you hold a paper with your number on it) in a database. There’s no free WiFi without requiring a phone number. It allows the government to connect internet users to real identities.
- hintymad 2y ago
  A big reason is that an eSIM is virtual, which means anyone can easily get an eSIM that allows them to punch through the great firewall -- a defeat that the Chinese government would never allow to happen

lxgr 2y ago

It apparently can be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI Supposedly the people doing this at scale (for grey imports?) even de-solder the eSIM module and resell it, but I have my doubts about that part of the story.

05 2y ago
Sure you can do it if there’s a module to desolder, but many phones will just use TrustZone/Secure Enclave and you’re not desoldering that…
- lxgr 2y ago
  Are there any TrustZone based eSIM implementations yet? I've heard about plans for a couple of times but haven't been following that closely. I'm not sure if iPhones still have a physical module; it would make a lot of sense for Apple to combine the eSIM implementation with the payments secure element (I think they hold some patents to that extent), but I'm not sure if they already do that.

rendaw 2y ago

Why do you need a physical sim in China? Are there just no esim providers? Or is it something deeper?

jtokoph 2y ago
Apparently there aren't any eSIMs in China that include a phone number. I'm not sure why. I think this is why Apple releases the latest iPhones with physical SIM trays in China while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only
- gruez 2y ago
  >while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only It's US that's esim only. Canada and Mexico still has physical sim + esim option if you're willing to drive across the border. https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mx/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mx/iphone/compare/
__m 2y ago
I only know eSIM providers for data
- gruez 2y ago
  Most "travel esims" are data-only, but there are definitely domestic carriers/MVNOs that provide voice + text, and provide esims.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  But normally you wouldn't want to use a local SIM in China because of the great firewall. I usually buy local SIMs but China is an exception. I can't live without Wikipedia.
emnudge 2y ago
It’s to connect phone numbers to identities. Getting a physical sim in China involves going in person to a store where they keep your passport and a mugshot (you hold a paper with your number on it) in a database. There’s no free WiFi without requiring a phone number. It allows the government to connect internet users to real identities.
hintymad 2y ago
A big reason is that an eSIM is virtual, which means anyone can easily get an eSIM that allows them to punch through the great firewall -- a defeat that the Chinese government would never allow to happen