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I'm a young developer living in Germany. Here's my perspective. Berlin is cheap, affordable, has an international culture (I'm an emmigrant) and pretty much som

I'm a young developer living in Germany. Here's my perspective. Berlin is cheap, affordable, has an international culture (I'm an emmigrant) and pretty much something to offer to everyone, so the city itself just has a good attraction for young people. I don't know why the startup scene has started booming here but just type in "web start-up" at indeed (http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin) and you'll get 275 results. Plus the UK has cracked down on emmigration laws and Germany has opened them up, at least for engineers, etc. b/c of the "Fachkräftemangel" i.e. the fact that the Germans lack skilled laborers. So whereas before for Europeans and especially Eastern europeans the UK was #1 its now changing b/c Germany is closer and easier. Also Germany seems more open to Europeans period, the UK with Cameron is doing all it can to shun the rest of Europe. The only problem I see, is that you still need to know German to get around ( which no one studies in school), which for instance is why my brother hasn't come. EDIT: I guess I exaggerated with the "no one studies in school" bit. My point is that english is the only language we are all pounded into learning regardless of whether or not we have an interest in languages or a talent for them, so we can at least function at some level with english. German, however, is not the lingua franca I think we can all agree on that. I'm quadlingual (if that's a word), but not all talented developers like languages as well and unfortunately whatever the germans say, you still need to know german if you want to assimilate in germany, get an apartment, go shopping, and live life.

iconfinder 14y ago
"which no one studies in school" In Denmark we can select German classes in both elementary and high school.
- zxcdw 14y ago
  Sure, here in Finland too, but who bothers at that age? Most people couldn't care less about "learning stuff that could be useful in future", and even less ever actually start thinking that taking optional classes could be benefitical. And even less of them think so at high school, let alone elementary school. So, in essence, no one studies German in school.
  - mekwall 14y ago
    Wow! Is that the kind of attitude you have over there? ... I feel bad for you, my neighbour :(
    - zxcdw 14y ago
      What kind of attitude, exactly?
      - iconfinder 14y ago
        This attitude: "who bothers at that age?"
        zxcdw 14y ago
        Are you sincerely suggesting that even a handful of students choose their optonal classes by what they consider benefitical for them in the future, once they grow up? :) I've been working at an elementary school for some time now, and I can't emphasize enough how little the kids think about their future in terms of taking optional classes and such. Not a single student thinks that "Hmm, I'll take German now, because I believe I may need it in the future!". No. What they think is "Hmm, I've always been a big fan of Rammstein and German language so I want to learn it". I'd argue that only after people attend Universities and colleges at 18+, they really start thinking about their future and may actually plan their courses and classes based on what they'll (want to) do in the future. Of course, when you think about this in the context of moving to Berlin after the rising startup scene, we're only interested in those who actually attend university, who care about their future, who study hard and so on. Such people probably start planning their future at younger age, aim for and dream about careers in the field even before other kids learn to understand what an actual career is. People with true ambitions are rare in general population, but not in the startup scene, I think this is something to be remembered.
        mekwall 14y ago
        Your attitude (and possibly the general attitude in Finland?) towards the children is kind of scary. If you think that "they don't care", they won't. Children are the best of mimics and will do and feel as the adults around them. If you work at an elementary school, aren't you supposed (or even obligated) to teach them how important it is and that it does matter? Language is one of those things that are so easy to learn when you're a kid, so it shouldn't go to waste. Just don't give in to this miserable "they don't care" thing, because it's not them, it's you.
- mekwall 14y ago
  Same goes in Sweden. It's quite easy for us Scandinavians to learn German since our languages are closely related (all except Finnish are Germanic languages). In fact, its the same with English, which is also a Germanic language.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    The difference with English is that the more sophisticated vocabulary is Romantic in origin, meaning that if an American wants to advance past a basic level of German proficiency, he'll have to spend a lot of time memorizing words.
  - coldarchon 14y ago
    Finnish aren't Scandinavian btw, they belong to the Fenno-Scandinavians but this excludes the Danes and Icelandic people.
hobin 14y ago
"which no one studies in school" In the Netherlands, German is compulsory in high school at the HAVO and VWO levels. Regrettably, I've pretty much forgotten all of it. That being said, the Dutch people are already half German.
maayank 14y ago
I'd just like to add my experiences in Germany[1] as a techie: - Almost no wifi. Coming from an area (outside of Germany) with abundant wifi at Cafes that came as a real shock to me. - As the parent said, you can't rely on just English for the day to day life. For example, I had to resort to a translator for getting a cellular account and cellular internet going. Even at O2, T-Mobile and Vodafone (global brand names) there were no representatives with enough English proficiency to tell me what the different packages included. That was for regular (non prepaid) accounts. For a prepaid sim card the situation was a little bit better (seller could understand English but not help me with cellular internet configuration, could explain it later to a German, so it wasn't because of lack of technical knowledge) but the automated phone service (that you need to use for selecting plans, add credit, etc.) was German only. - The cellular reception at cities is good, but the cellular (and cellular internet) reception at the more rural areas (even 30 minutes away from the big cities) proved very sketchy to me. Those are the problems that surprised me. There are definitely advantages (good public transport inside big cities, relatively cheap living on the east), but I have nothing to add to other posters on that front. EDIT: another thing that surprised me is that internet tethering is disabled (with no other option) on prepaid sims and costs extra (if at all possible) for regular accounts, at least in all the venues I checked. Again, if you come from a country/carrier where it is like that you won't be surprised, but I was. Especially as I've known Germany as "the place pioneering in unlocked phones". IMPORTANT EDIT2 about salaries: while cheaper, if you come to work as a local employee the salary as a programer might be lower. Be sure to check at http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Country=Germany/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Country=Germany/Salary (my very anecdotal experience is that this website is relatively accurate) Take that into account as well when comparing living costs. [1] The longest time I was there consecutively was 1 month, but the points still stand
notJim 14y ago
What "m/f" or "m/w" mean in these job postings?
- hopefully 14y ago
  "male/female", or "männlich/weiblich" respectively.
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  male/female maennlich/weiblich i.e. We'll employ you regardless of your genitalia.
  - notJim 14y ago
    That's what I thought. Can employers in Germany actually choose to hire men or women for a position? And under what circumstances is that allowed or common?
    - juri 14y ago
      The use of f/m or w/m results from the fact, that most of the job titles are gender specific, as are german nouns in general. An example: Programmierer is a male programmer, Programmiererin is a female programmer. So "Programmierer (w/m)" is a shortcut for "Programmierer oder Programmiererin"
      - notJim 14y ago
        Ahh, I see. I also noticed some postings that said “Programmierer(in) (m/w)”, which seemed redundant, so it kind of threw me off the trail. Thanks for the info!

iconfinder 14y ago

"which no one studies in school" In Denmark we can select German classes in both elementary and high school.

zxcdw 14y ago
Sure, here in Finland too, but who bothers at that age? Most people couldn't care less about "learning stuff that could be useful in future", and even less ever actually start thinking that taking optional classes could be benefitical. And even less of them think so at high school, let alone elementary school. So, in essence, no one studies German in school.
- mekwall 14y ago
  Wow! Is that the kind of attitude you have over there? ... I feel bad for you, my neighbour :(
  - zxcdw 14y ago
    What kind of attitude, exactly?
    - iconfinder 14y ago
      This attitude: "who bothers at that age?"
      - zxcdw 14y ago
        Are you sincerely suggesting that even a handful of students choose their optonal classes by what they consider benefitical for them in the future, once they grow up? :) I've been working at an elementary school for some time now, and I can't emphasize enough how little the kids think about their future in terms of taking optional classes and such. Not a single student thinks that "Hmm, I'll take German now, because I believe I may need it in the future!". No. What they think is "Hmm, I've always been a big fan of Rammstein and German language so I want to learn it". I'd argue that only after people attend Universities and colleges at 18+, they really start thinking about their future and may actually plan their courses and classes based on what they'll (want to) do in the future. Of course, when you think about this in the context of moving to Berlin after the rising startup scene, we're only interested in those who actually attend university, who care about their future, who study hard and so on. Such people probably start planning their future at younger age, aim for and dream about careers in the field even before other kids learn to understand what an actual career is. People with true ambitions are rare in general population, but not in the startup scene, I think this is something to be remembered.
        mekwall 14y ago
        Your attitude (and possibly the general attitude in Finland?) towards the children is kind of scary. If you think that "they don't care", they won't. Children are the best of mimics and will do and feel as the adults around them. If you work at an elementary school, aren't you supposed (or even obligated) to teach them how important it is and that it does matter? Language is one of those things that are so easy to learn when you're a kid, so it shouldn't go to waste. Just don't give in to this miserable "they don't care" thing, because it's not them, it's you.
mekwall 14y ago
Same goes in Sweden. It's quite easy for us Scandinavians to learn German since our languages are closely related (all except Finnish are Germanic languages). In fact, its the same with English, which is also a Germanic language.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  The difference with English is that the more sophisticated vocabulary is Romantic in origin, meaning that if an American wants to advance past a basic level of German proficiency, he'll have to spend a lot of time memorizing words.
- coldarchon 14y ago
  Finnish aren't Scandinavian btw, they belong to the Fenno-Scandinavians but this excludes the Danes and Icelandic people.

hobin 14y ago

"which no one studies in school" In the Netherlands, German is compulsory in high school at the HAVO and VWO levels. Regrettably, I've pretty much forgotten all of it. That being said, the Dutch people are already half German.

maayank 14y ago

I'd just like to add my experiences in Germany[1] as a techie: - Almost no wifi. Coming from an area (outside of Germany) with abundant wifi at Cafes that came as a real shock to me. - As the parent said, you can't rely on just English for the day to day life. For example, I had to resort to a translator for getting a cellular account and cellular internet going. Even at O2, T-Mobile and Vodafone (global brand names) there were no representatives with enough English proficiency to tell me what the different packages included. That was for regular (non prepaid) accounts. For a prepaid sim card the situation was a little bit better (seller could understand English but not help me with cellular internet configuration, could explain it later to a German, so it wasn't because of lack of technical knowledge) but the automated phone service (that you need to use for selecting plans, add credit, etc.) was German only. - The cellular reception at cities is good, but the cellular (and cellular internet) reception at the more rural areas (even 30 minutes away from the big cities) proved very sketchy to me. Those are the problems that surprised me. There are definitely advantages (good public transport inside big cities, relatively cheap living on the east), but I have nothing to add to other posters on that front. EDIT: another thing that surprised me is that internet tethering is disabled (with no other option) on prepaid sims and costs extra (if at all possible) for regular accounts, at least in all the venues I checked. Again, if you come from a country/carrier where it is like that you won't be surprised, but I was. Especially as I've known Germany as "the place pioneering in unlocked phones". IMPORTANT EDIT2 about salaries: while cheaper, if you come to work as a local employee the salary as a programer might be lower. Be sure to check at http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Country=Germany/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Country=Germany/Salary (my very anecdotal experience is that this website is relatively accurate) Take that into account as well when comparing living costs. [1] The longest time I was there consecutively was 1 month, but the points still stand

notJim 14y ago

What "m/f" or "m/w" mean in these job postings?

hopefully 14y ago
"male/female", or "männlich/weiblich" respectively.
barry-cotter 14y ago
male/female maennlich/weiblich i.e. We'll employ you regardless of your genitalia.
- notJim 14y ago
  That's what I thought. Can employers in Germany actually choose to hire men or women for a position? And under what circumstances is that allowed or common?
  - juri 14y ago
    The use of f/m or w/m results from the fact, that most of the job titles are gender specific, as are german nouns in general. An example: Programmierer is a male programmer, Programmiererin is a female programmer. So "Programmierer (w/m)" is a shortcut for "Programmierer oder Programmiererin"
    - notJim 14y ago
      Ahh, I see. I also noticed some postings that said “Programmierer(in) (m/w)”, which seemed redundant, so it kind of threw me off the trail. Thanks for the info!