21 ms·

Is Berlin the new home for tech start-up business? [video]

123 points by jimmyjim 14y ago

andreasklinger 14y ago
What's the international position on this? I am living/working in the UK startup scene and it seems to me Berlin could become europe early stage garage very soon. Personally i believe London might be still the place to be after P/M Fit (the place to be in europe…) What's the US take on this ? Do people actually care outside of the german speaking areas and maybe Uk?
- danmaz74 14y ago
  I don't know about an "international" position, but if I'll have to move from Italy for my startup (ie, to get funding) I would consider Berlin and London. Some time ago I would have only thought about London, but Berlin is much cheaper and I don't like UK's attitude towards Europe very much.
- pimeys 14y ago
  Berlin is for me truly the only place I would live. Although it's not for everybody. And I would prefer not driving an expensive car at least in Neukölln or Kreuzberg areas. There are lots of other subcultures here.
- vellum 14y ago
  The US still Silicon Valley centric, with a growing interest in New York. But there's still a segment that likes to travel abroad. It comes up a lot in the "Where should I bootstrap my business" threads. Cheap rents, broadband access, English-speaking population, and a lot of young people make Berlin attractive. If anyone's looking for a startup visa, I posted some information here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170466 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170466
- bpyne 14y ago
  I'm a US citizen. My take is that if I was still single and not a parent, I would be in Berlin immediately. In some ways, it sounds better than Silicon Valley or New York. Transportation around SV doesn't sound like it's based on public transportation and housing prices are crazy. New York has great public transportation, especially with the addition of water taxies on the East River, but housing is out of control. Learning German, if you're a native English speaker, is easy. Simple sentences in German can often sound like an oddly accented English. German is highly consistent, i.e. not a lot of exceptions to grammatical rules. You just have to get used to word order being different in some instances, e.g. verbs can appear at the end of sentence, and case endings. (Case endings are no big deal. Getting them wrong doesn't prevent the person listening from understanding you. Getting them right is the difference between a great speaker and a good one.) My experience in Germany around 1989 was that native Germans were more than happy to switch to English when I was stumped about how to say something in German. Learning the German language should not be a barrier. For anyone thinking far enough ahead about being a parent, situating in Germany has other benefits. Germany has a better health care system and better public education. They are large costs/worries for any parent.
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    By the numbers, Germany's public education system is basically identical to that of the US (scoring 525 and 524, respectively). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... What makes you believe it's education system is better? Or it's health care system, for that matter?
    - neilk 14y ago
      Your source fiddled with the PISA numbers for the USA to exclude all students of non-European descent. I'm not sure what s/he was trying to prove. This post breaks results down by income segment and suggests that if you exclude poverty, the USA does indeed do great. Otherwise the USA as a whole is no better than average, maybe a little below average. http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/2011-01PISA.php3 http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/2011-01PISA.php3 I have to say this agrees with my anecdotal experience of the USA. If you went to high school in Palo Alto, you might be having enriching experiences that even students in rich European countries can only dream about. Or you could be like the students some friends of mine tutored in North Carolina, who were not aware of what the Duke University buildings in their city were for. I'm not actually knocking the USA. It faces social challenges that no other country faces, and often gets a bad rap from critics who've never even visited and think it's populated by sociopathic Randroids. But it is a country of enormous contrasts.
      - yummyfajitas 14y ago
        Your source fiddled with the PISA numbers for the USA to exclude all students of non-European descent. I'm not sure what s/he was trying to prove. It's trying to prove that US schools are just as good at educating European Americans as German schools are at educating Europeans. (Sanandaji also excluded immigrants from the German numbers.) I.e., any gaps in output between US and German schools are caused by gaps in the input, not the school system itself.
        neilk 14y ago
kayoone 14y ago
Main reasons for Berlin are its young and creative culture, affordable prices (rents, food etc) and overall great quality of live. The city itself is not the prettiest though, but it has its charme :) Ive been there a few times at pitch/startups events and always liked the locations and overall vibe.
- adambyrtek 14y ago
  The modern architecture in Berlin is really astounding. The city also has a lot of parks and green areas, which make it a pleasant place to live in. Not to mention perfect public transportation.
jfaucett 14y ago
I'm a young developer living in Germany. Here's my perspective. Berlin is cheap, affordable, has an international culture (I'm an emmigrant) and pretty much something to offer to everyone, so the city itself just has a good attraction for young people. I don't know why the startup scene has started booming here but just type in "web start-up" at indeed (http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin) and you'll get 275 results. Plus the UK has cracked down on emmigration laws and Germany has opened them up, at least for engineers, etc. b/c of the "Fachkräftemangel" i.e. the fact that the Germans lack skilled laborers. So whereas before for Europeans and especially Eastern europeans the UK was #1 its now changing b/c Germany is closer and easier. Also Germany seems more open to Europeans period, the UK with Cameron is doing all it can to shun the rest of Europe. The only problem I see, is that you still need to know German to get around ( which no one studies in school), which for instance is why my brother hasn't come. EDIT: I guess I exaggerated with the "no one studies in school" bit. My point is that english is the only language we are all pounded into learning regardless of whether or not we have an interest in languages or a talent for them, so we can at least function at some level with english. German, however, is not the lingua franca I think we can all agree on that. I'm quadlingual (if that's a word), but not all talented developers like languages as well and unfortunately whatever the germans say, you still need to know german if you want to assimilate in germany, get an apartment, go shopping, and live life.
- iconfinder 14y ago
  "which no one studies in school" In Denmark we can select German classes in both elementary and high school.
  - zxcdw 14y ago
    Sure, here in Finland too, but who bothers at that age? Most people couldn't care less about "learning stuff that could be useful in future", and even less ever actually start thinking that taking optional classes could be benefitical. And even less of them think so at high school, let alone elementary school. So, in essence, no one studies German in school.
cageface 14y ago
I enjoyed the time I spent in Berlin last year and I've considered going back there but this seems imprudent with the Euro on the verge of implosion.
- hastur 14y ago
  That's funny. ;) Some Euro countries (Greece) might be on the verge of implosion, but there's no way the general currency could suffer any significant damage and Germany is the very reason for that. The German economy is among the most powerful in the world and quite frankly you're more likely to experience an economic collapse in the US than in Germany. (Albeit that's pretty unlikely too, obviously. At least for now.)
  - mekwall 14y ago
    Actually, an economic collapse in the US is one of the most likely things to occur during this century. If you can't see that coming you must be very naive.
  - danmaz74 14y ago
    The real risk is that a contagion effect could bring about the split up of the Eurozone, and in that case a new Deutsche Mark would make German export much less competitive (and Berlin much less cheap). It's not likely, but it's still a big risk.
    - hastur 14y ago
      There's no chance of the Euro zone falling apart. The worst thing that could happen is Greece exiting the Euro zone.
      - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
        Which would rapidly approach equivalence to a New Deutschemark. Germany has itself in the Euro trap just as strongly as the PIIGS. If they go under, how will Germany keep its currency down and where will it export to?
urgeio 14y ago
Top 5 reasons why you should move to Berlin, now: 1. Lowest livings costs with highest quality of living. Stay in gorgeous, perfectly renovated apartments in pre-WWII residential buildings with high ceilings, right in the middle of the center and pay a fraction of costs of any other capital (even cheaper than any Eastern European capital). No need for a car—Berlin has one of the densest subway nets and wide streets make biking fun. In addition, Germany has an amazing social health care system including health, unemployment and pension (when working as an employee). 2. A vibrant and fast growing ecosystem of smart people. A vast number of new software talents, founders, software companies and VCs are moving to Berlin, every day (Twitter, Google, Soundcloud, Early Bird and many more). 3. People here are open-minded, outgoing, mix well and international—no need to learn German, everyone speaks English! Making new friends is a matter of days. Visit tons of networking and startup events, every week. 4. Easy work permissions—Europeans do not need any and can work from day one and the rest applies for the hassle-free Blue Card. 5. Berlin's night life is unmatched, huge and changing every day (plus ridiculously cheap). Berlin has got some of the most dazzling, naughty, and original clubs on the face of the Earth. Now, the shameless plug: Berlin is calling and getting the new tech hub of Europe. If you are passionate about building great software, we’d love to talk with you. If you don't live in Berlin yet, we could help to fix that. => http://urge.io/jobs http://urge.io/jobs
- its_so_on 14y ago
  genuine question: if it's so great and the capital of a rich country, why is it so cheap? (e.g. what you mentioned about apartments in the city center.)
  - pillefame 14y ago
    Because it has no huge financial sector unlike New York or London. Germany's Stock-Market is located in Frankfurt. Also after reunification, East-Berlin was vastly unpopulated, people moving into the already modern West-Germany, while the former GDR was being restored. Nowadays there is hardly any differnece between East- and West-Berlin, but there is uninhabitated room. It is getting fewer though.
  - 14y ago
graup 14y ago
I'm from Berlin, so I naturally enjoy the kind of hype that's being created since one or two years ago. However, I'd like to stress what someone in the video said: It's just budding and really not yet comparable to New York or London. There are quite a couple of cool start-ups here now, but still few with innovative breakthrough technology and also few large investors. But I see it coming, too. I guess this will also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. For ten years people have been telling how cool Berlin is and a lot creative people were attracted. Now everyone's telling about the new tech start-up scene and that will attract even more talented people - hopefully also large investors. Interesting times ahead!
- bojanbabic 14y ago
  I agree on that. I've moved to Berlin together with hype and there is only handfull of really successful startups. Berlin needs more internet millionaires and more transparency. By now, afaiks most of Berlin tech millionaires come from Rocket Internet and people that spawn out of RI have different mindset from what you can see in Valley. But, I'm pretty sure that new generation of Berlin entrepreneurs are on good path to change tech scene from ground up.
alexro 14y ago
In the UK there is no consent among the investors where the action should go. I was quite surprised to learn than basically every credible accelerator has it's own view of where my start-up should be based. Oxygen - Birmingham Ignite100 - New Castle Seedcamp - London I get their desire to improve local culture but hey this is just ridiculous to ask me to settle somewhere because you gave me some money. Also, start-ups thrive in a tech-savvy areas only. This all adds to the problem and Berlin has all the odds to become the answer.
- hastur 14y ago
  Yeah, but the UK, for all intents and purposes, is a 51st US state, in terms of legal and privacy concerns. If you want to protect your startup's users, you should base your company in a country that won't extradite people on charges that aren't even applicable in said country. (O'Dwyer casus) And where police won't sell you location and other assorted private data to the highest bidder. (NotW casus)
- yannski 14y ago
  You should take a look at HackFWD http://hackfwd.com/ http://hackfwd.com/ For them it doesn't matter where you are in Europe. However, their recruiting mechanism is referrer based.
  - alexro 14y ago
    "HackFwd takes 27% equity in exchange ..." And it's pre-seed money. Thanks but no thanks.
- sim0n 14y ago
  Almost all accelerators do this. YC strongly encourages you to live in the Valley.
  - alexro 14y ago
    There is a difference when YC wants you to live in SV for YOUR success and other accelerators wanting you to live somewhere for THEIR benefit, right?
wondering 14y ago
On the 'fake it,till you make it' path,Berlin seems to be right in the 'fake it' part.You guys write about low costs of living,however there are cheaper places in Eastern Europe with better tech talent availability overall.You mention the nightlife and a couple of the clubs are indeed world class,but I'd doubt it that you go there more than 5 times a year.The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality,in Bulgaria and Romania you get some of the fastest internet in the world for a fraction of the price you'd pay in Germany.The women are better than in the UK,but far from the best looking in the world. What I'm trying to say with this point is,I don't really see the advantage of being in Berlin in the early stages of your business too,when you're just a 3 people shop,busting your asses all day to move things forward Having written all that,I loved Berlin during my few months stay.
- jfaucett 14y ago
  You're missing some big points with Berlin. Where to begin... germany has a great social health care system, the economy is booming, it has a world class educational system, relatively crime and corruption free AND compared to what you get it is cheap (maybe not as cheap as Romania, but the benefits outway the costs). If you want to get talented developers germany has something to offer them and their families.
  - wondering 14y ago
    Again,the points were about setting up a very early stage company in Berlin YOURSELF.It wasn't about finding employment.I've been robbed only in Western Europe,Berlin included and not even once have been victim of a crime in Eastern Europe for 18 years.So there you go :)
    - jfaucett 14y ago
      okay, but once you get beyond a 2 or 3 man team and want to attract experienced devs and expand or get investing Berlin has a lot. Its centrally located in Europe, you can jump to Warsaw, Paris, London, all quickly, plus the points I made above. I've never been to Romania so I don't know how international and networked the scene is there for comparison. You mention it being cheaper but its not all about being cheap though, the plus is in berlin its relatively inexpensive for the quality and connections you get. Sorry, to hear you got robbed! I've only lived in countries with high corruption levels (in the gov't), so germany is kind of a breath of fresh air even though its not perfect - I doubt anywhere is.
kori23 14y ago
It all sounds interesting and I've been meaning to drop my corporate job for some time now. So is there a Berlin startup news site (preferably in English) so I could get a feel what kind of startups are there? EDIT: http://siliconallee.com/ http://siliconallee.com/ seems to be the thing I was looing for, anything else?
- sashthebash 14y ago
  Another one: http://venturevillage.eu/ http://venturevillage.eu/
- NicoleSimon 14y ago
  You need to drop your corporate thinking first. I suggest you get into some projects to figure out if you are able to work in and with a startup. Note that I am saying that with a background of 15 years in corporate. ;) Most of the startups are actually very busy doing stuff (as in they don't are yet at the point understanding what proper Communcation means sigh), but http://hascore.com/ http://hascore.com/ has a good list of links. I will be posting an overview posting asap with additional links.
yctechmgr 14y ago
Don't mean to threadjack, but I'd love to team up in Berlin with a biz cofounder. If you're looking for an early employee or technical cofounder, please email me: yctechmgr at gmail.com - tell me something about your startup.
- NicoleSimon 14y ago
  We forward the "looking for co founder" from the Berlin startup group to the Jobs group: 'Berlin Startup Jobs' https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/
KilianSchramm 14y ago
Berlin is ramping up quickly. We get applications from all around the world. This is great and was much different just 12 Month ago. The hockey stick kicks in, now! One comment on English: It is much easier than most non-english speaking cities and most international talent can manage the daily tasks within weeks. check out foundfair.de and contact us in case you need help getting settled.
- alexro 14y ago
  "Upload pitch" isn't working for me in Chrome. I think you can benefit by simply providing a link on top of page for the start-ups to apply.
jdsemrau 14y ago
Berlin is amazing; lived there for a year. Plus records produces in Berlin include: U2 (Achtung Baby), David Bowie (Low,Heroes, and Lodger) , and Depeche Mode (Construction Time Again).
twfarland 14y ago
I'm an NZ expat who has lived in Berlin for the last few years. While Berlin is cool, let me present a caveat... I've enjoyed the music scene and cheap rent, but have experienced major culture shock. It is a very intense place, full of contradiction, i.e. extremely open-minded in some areas and absurdly conservate in others. Berlin alternatively challenges and reaffirms one's various values. Sometimes it seems like the 'adults' have left the city and left the 'kids' in charge. At other times, it feels impossible to breathe without violating some ponderous rule. Many are sucked into what is called a 'Berlinquency' - an existence in which one is spoilt by the hedonism, looseness, and condusiveness to self-obsession this place affords. The tech scene is ok. There are a lot of clones. Some great meetups, though. It all seems to be on the up. Watch this space. And visit for a month before deciding to move here.
- k-mcgrady 14y ago
  Any examples of what is 'absurdly conservative'?
  - TillE 14y ago
    As a New Yorker who's lived in Berlin for four years, I can't think of much. I've noticed on certain English-speaking forums that there's a tendency to exaggerate and obsess over incredibly minor cultural differences. Like jaywalking, which isn't even an issue in Berlin (people do it and nobody cares).
- DanI-S 14y ago
  To be fair, that would also be a near-perfect expat description of California.
kellysutton 14y ago
I've been back and forth from Berlin for a little while now. My company's home base is in NYC, but I sometimes work out of Berlin. Even this year while I was there (Feb. - May), the startup scene is exploding. I liken it to the satisfaction of knowing of a great band before everyone else: there's no doubt that Berlin will be muttered in the same breath as the Valley, NYC and London. It's only a matter of time. The German culture can be a bit harsh to outsiders, but the Berlin startup scene more than makes up for that. The folks there are very kind and always willing to entertain a good conversation.
MrKurtHaeusler 14y ago
I am a foreigner who has been working as a developer or manager in the software sector in Germany for around 10 years. For a couple of years I have been trying to move towards self-employment, with some ups and downs, but I am making progress on a project together with my wife. Last year I had the chance to switch jobs and move elsewhere so I naturally targeted Berlin. I would like to keep working in a high-paying job while funding the startup that I work on in my free time. I noticed a few things: There are a quite a few startup jobs, but they are low end, low paying. Many pay even less than what I started on 10 years ago. They are looking for those starting their first job I think. I get the feeling Berlin startups get a lot less funding that other startups. Even the non-startup jobs that require more experience seem to pay a lot less, and even with the slightly cheaper rent than other cities, I couldn't find any attractive options. The official work experience I have on my CV is more enterprisy stuff like .NET and lots of stuff startups care less about like Scrum, Kanban, management in general and agile software development. I do have experience with things like Ruby, Python and JavaScript, but even startup employers were only interested in what was on my CV. Not complaining or anything, just trying to help get a feel on what I found while looking there last year. I found a good job near Frankfurt, and who knows, maybe I will end up in Berlin later, but I feel I might not need to. Frankfurt has a startup scene (and a rich financial sector). So does Cologne where I used to live.
- nirvana 14y ago
  I think you're bringing up good points, which I would summarize this way: The berlin startup scene is great for recent graduates as an employee, but if you're more experienced, then you want to be a founder.
- NicoleSimon 14y ago
  "The official work experience I have on my CV is more enterprisy stuff" That already is your point. You are coming from an enterprise thinking and payment structure - Berlin is everything but Enterprise. With your kind of payment expectations, they will simply expect you to step up the game, and that probably is at least CTO if not co founder. If you want to be your specialized dev, you need to be extra good to work around this area and _understand_ what startups are about. Also, judging by your nickname here, your name still sounds German. If you are from A / CH by definition (and if not proven otherwise on your CV and through experiences) you are not automatically startup material. Don't get me wrong: it is just about different skillset and mentality and if you cannot provide proof that you are not tainted by that obstacle, you will have an even harder time getting a job in that environment.
DividesByZero 14y ago
I'm an engineer who visited Berlin earlier this year and loved the city - it's like my home town of Melbourne, Australia which I love, but just MORE of it. I already had the itch to leave my 9-5 and go somewhere for an adventure, so when I got home I set about working out what I'd need to do to head over there and how much capital I'd need for about 6-months self sustained living in Berlin (came out to about $15,000AUD, thanks to the current strong AUD). I found out one of my close (engineer) friends was also looking to leave his job and do something interesting and exciting, so I've convinced him to come with me too. Succeed or fail, it really seems like we could be part of something exciting in Berlin! Any advice on dos and don't would be appreciated.
kmfrk 14y ago
Does anyone know how the start-up scene in Berlin compares to that in Paris? They seem to be two of the biggest contenders for the SV of Europe. I think Spain tried something similar with Barcelona that ended up fizzing out.
oceanician 14y ago
I would love to buy one of the 10,000 sq metre mills 5 mins taxi from Manchester's central Picadilly train station and turn it into startup accomodation. We're only 2 hours from London's Euston!! (So less than 3 hours from Shorditch) Berlin however does seem to have the greatest multicultural vibe going for it for startups. It's pretty impressive, and I hope to sample it later in the year :)
_ex_ 14y ago
How is life for non white people? I'm from latin-america.
- lacosaes0 14y ago
  It's really hard at least in Berlin.
  - _ex_ 14y ago
    why it's hard?
- nirvana 14y ago
  Berlin has the largest turkish population outside of instanbul. They have turkish restaurants everywhere and also grocery stores. The population is ethnically very diverse, though of course, more middle eastern people than latin american ones. Germans tend to be proper. So, drinking beer on the subway might be frowned upon, but nobody will comment. If you're obnoxious or noisy or otherwise being a jerk, germans will not be friendly to you. If you're polite, they don't care what you look like. If you've got a chip on your shoulder, you may mistake their coldness, which is really professionalism, for judgement, which it isn't.
  - _ex_ 14y ago
    thanks! I think I'm a bit less louder that my con-nationals
24pfilms 14y ago
Wow, timing is everything. I had booked my ticket 2 days ago for Berlin. I am finishing up my time at StartupChile and heading to Berlin after being convinced by many at SUP, that Berlin has many things happening. I needed a high quality affordable city, that was startup friendly and supported my photography addiction. Berlin hopefully will allow me the time to focus and finish my two iOS games.
- IanOzsvald 14y ago
  I'm also finishing StartupChile and 24pfilms is flat-sharing with us in Buenos Aires right now. We're returning to London for a while but Berlin is still on our list (nowhere else in Europe is on our list).
webjunkie 14y ago
Home for start-up business? Yes. For tech start-ups? I don't think so. I have yet to meet one engineer-driven tech start-up from Berlin. Most founders I met and know are some business guys with oh-so-clever ideas looking for just the right CTO guy to make their plan reality. And most German developers I know also never thought about working for a start-up. They happily flock to every large German company you may know. The previous start-up I worked for had more Spanish developers than German ones.
- JVIDEL 14y ago
  Same here in Argentina, the startup community is almost engineer-free (almost, there are exceptions) but yeah it's kinda difficult to find engineers because most here don't want to work at a startup that might last less than a year, so they go to big and established companies instead.
- notJim 14y ago
  Have you met or spoken to the Soundcloud guys? I met a bunch of their engineers here in NYC a few months ago, and they were very cool to hang out with. Seemed like a pretty cool company to me. Edit: they could be an outlier, of course.
- wickedchicken 14y ago
  Ableton? Native Instruments?
  - hfaber 14y ago
    They're not startups.
    - nagnatron 14y ago
      How about Bitwig?
- pimeys 14y ago
  In our company, SponsorPay, we have a strong developer culture. The whole IT team is rock solid.
purzelrakete 14y ago
feel free to drop me a mail if you want to know anything about working at soundcloud. i'm an engineer. rany@soundcloud.com
paulnelligan 14y ago
Berlin is a FANTASTIC city to bootstrap your project ... reasons: 1. cheap cost of living, 2. availability of relatively well paid contract work, 3. A very supportive startup / creative community who are willing to share info and resources, 4. A very smart and creative demographic, 5. wonderful bars, clubs, and restaurants, 6. German people are actually a decent bunch :) disadvantages: 1. over-strict regulations in dealing with Banking and Regulatory bodies (whatever you do, do NOT sign up for a postbank a/c), 2. Less than ideal weather. Overall a win I think, which is why I continue to call Berlin my home.
- wickedchicken 14y ago
  > wonderful bars, clubs They don't close. They. Do. Not. Close. As a nocturnal developer I could go out to a club, get back to my hostel at 2, write code for 2 hours and then go out again. Bliss.
spitfire 14y ago
So if someone wanted to relocate to Berlin to start a company, or to expand a team into europe, how would they go about that? Where do people want to live? Where to locate offices? Where do you find good talent? What are the legal steps to do so? Any pitfalls to avoid? Others should feel free to jump on this.
sbouafif 14y ago
Any city has its pros and cons. I am currently an intern in a tech start-up in Paris, the city has many co-working spaces / incubators. The start-up scene is bigger every day, and yes you won't speak french 70% of the day. Anyway just saying the document seems to be a nice post card from Berlin but the same things are happening everywhere. Last year it was Paris (Wired.com): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs
JVIDEL 14y ago
This seems interesting, but I have one question: what about taxes? Any tax breaks for tech startups? what about employee/healthcare costs?
- pmoehring 14y ago
  Almost no tax breaks for startups, and healthcare and employee taxes are regulated very closely to normal German laws. Shockingly, recently the govt seems to have decided that angel investors and even founders will not be eligible for certain tax breaks, and instead will be taxed on income tax level for capital gains.
  - JVIDEL 14y ago
    And what level of taxation are we talking about?
NicoleSimon 14y ago
One of the things we still need to work on in Berlinis connecting people better. ;) So some notes and links. * Introductory notes * Entry points / sites * Finding out about events * Getting a job * Got links? Please provide _________________ INTRODUCTORY NOTES _________________ Per se there are two different circles of startup folk in Germany. The german / Germany oriented ones, what I usually call "the victims of the language island" (everything in Germany is dubbed - movies, tv, books). The second, more interesting level is the international mindset, the people who are mentally oriented toward silicon valley. Both group usually do not mingle and the following applies for that second group and explain part of the reason why Berlin is special. This group has accepted english as their lingua franca and people come from all over the world, enjoying not only the benefits listed in the other comments, but the feeling of "being able to make it here". The absence of any enterprise like structure due to the past with the wall enables in many ways what Berlin is today. There is of course an echo chamber effect for this group and once you connect, you run into the usual startups very quickly. ;) _________________ ENTRY POINTS _________________ Your Nr 1. starting point for meeting people ;) English speaking Berlin startup group on Facebook with ~2400 members. https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/ Follow that if you are interested in meeting people and or asking questions. Hint: Do not try to post stuff which is does not have the "Berlin and startup" relevant connection and do not try to sneak in a "but in theory this is about startups ...", I will delete the post and ban you permanently. Looking for a job / employee / co founder does belong into the sister group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/) __ General sites to read: http://venturevillage.eu/ http://venturevillage.eu/ http://siliconallee.com/ http://siliconallee.com/ http://www.techberlin.com/ http://www.techberlin.com/ __ We also have a strong women in tech movement in Berlin: http://berlingeekettes.com/ http://berlingeekettes.com/ is both interview site and meetup; I run http://girlgeekdinner.de/ http://girlgeekdinner.de/ which will happen more frequently once I am relocated. ;) __ Find a Co-Working spaces: https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&L=1 http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&L=1 is the official place from Berlin to help people coming to Berlin, they are very helpful too with business needs with a special attention to startups. _________________ EVENTS _________________ Event listings as in "is there something happening ..." http://berlinwebweek.de/ http://berlinwebweek.de/ Get the weekly Newsletter with new events: http://startupdigest.com/berlin/ http://startupdigest.com/berlin/ Berlin tech user groups links: http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html Monthly radio show about Berlin Startups http://fridayat6.de/ http://fridayat6.de/ Not very active but still: Berlin StartUp Employees https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/ Meetup.com has tons of groups and meetups beyond startup land http://www.meetup.com http://www.meetup.com and then go Berlin _________________ GETTING A JOB _________________ If you are looking for a job in Berlin, are a Berlin based startup looking for employees or for a co founder, this facebook group can be helful for you https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ __ Job boards with a special focus on Berlin startups: http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/ http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/ http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin (this is a list of some startups made in berlin + links to job pages if available.) http://meetfounder.com/ http://meetfounder.com/ (if you are looking for a co-founder) __ Finding companies to work for http://hascore.com/ http://hascore.com/ limits itself to "Hascore is a job board focused on Product Development for the Berlin Startup Scene that provides relevant context for making better decisions" BUT because the way they list their jobs you can surf through it and find the links to lots of companies. __ Listings mostly in German http://jobslike.me/ http://jobslike.me/ http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/ http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/ https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebote-580691/ https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebo... _________________ Any additions? _________________ Happy to take that into the list Also I am always looking for people to add to my "English tweeting people from Berlin with startup affinity" https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals hth Nicole
radiospaetkauf 14y ago
Here's a shameless plug: Listen to the Radio Spaetkauf podcast if you want insights into life in Berlin from an international perspective. http://www.radiospaetkauf.com http://www.radiospaetkauf.com

123 points by jimmyjim 14y ago

What's the international position on this? I am living/working in the UK startup scene and it seems to me Berlin could become europe early stage garage very soon. Personally i believe London might be still the place to be after P/M Fit (the place to be in europe…) What's the US take on this ? Do people actually care outside of the german speaking areas and maybe Uk?

danmaz74 14y ago
I don't know about an "international" position, but if I'll have to move from Italy for my startup (ie, to get funding) I would consider Berlin and London. Some time ago I would have only thought about London, but Berlin is much cheaper and I don't like UK's attitude towards Europe very much.
pimeys 14y ago
Berlin is for me truly the only place I would live. Although it's not for everybody. And I would prefer not driving an expensive car at least in Neukölln or Kreuzberg areas. There are lots of other subcultures here.
vellum 14y ago
The US still Silicon Valley centric, with a growing interest in New York. But there's still a segment that likes to travel abroad. It comes up a lot in the "Where should I bootstrap my business" threads. Cheap rents, broadband access, English-speaking population, and a lot of young people make Berlin attractive. If anyone's looking for a startup visa, I posted some information here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170466 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4170466
bpyne 14y ago
I'm a US citizen. My take is that if I was still single and not a parent, I would be in Berlin immediately. In some ways, it sounds better than Silicon Valley or New York. Transportation around SV doesn't sound like it's based on public transportation and housing prices are crazy. New York has great public transportation, especially with the addition of water taxies on the East River, but housing is out of control. Learning German, if you're a native English speaker, is easy. Simple sentences in German can often sound like an oddly accented English. German is highly consistent, i.e. not a lot of exceptions to grammatical rules. You just have to get used to word order being different in some instances, e.g. verbs can appear at the end of sentence, and case endings. (Case endings are no big deal. Getting them wrong doesn't prevent the person listening from understanding you. Getting them right is the difference between a great speaker and a good one.) My experience in Germany around 1989 was that native Germans were more than happy to switch to English when I was stumped about how to say something in German. Learning the German language should not be a barrier. For anyone thinking far enough ahead about being a parent, situating in Germany has other benefits. Germany has a better health care system and better public education. They are large costs/worries for any parent.
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  By the numbers, Germany's public education system is basically identical to that of the US (scoring 525 and 524, respectively). http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... What makes you believe it's education system is better? Or it's health care system, for that matter?
  - neilk 14y ago
    Your source fiddled with the PISA numbers for the USA to exclude all students of non-European descent. I'm not sure what s/he was trying to prove. This post breaks results down by income segment and suggests that if you exclude poverty, the USA does indeed do great. Otherwise the USA as a whole is no better than average, maybe a little below average. http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/2011-01PISA.php3 http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/2011-01PISA.php3 I have to say this agrees with my anecdotal experience of the USA. If you went to high school in Palo Alto, you might be having enriching experiences that even students in rich European countries can only dream about. Or you could be like the students some friends of mine tutored in North Carolina, who were not aware of what the Duke University buildings in their city were for. I'm not actually knocking the USA. It faces social challenges that no other country faces, and often gets a bad rap from critics who've never even visited and think it's populated by sociopathic Randroids. But it is a country of enormous contrasts.
    - yummyfajitas 14y ago
      Your source fiddled with the PISA numbers for the USA to exclude all students of non-European descent. I'm not sure what s/he was trying to prove. It's trying to prove that US schools are just as good at educating European Americans as German schools are at educating Europeans. (Sanandaji also excluded immigrants from the German numbers.) I.e., any gaps in output between US and German schools are caused by gaps in the input, not the school system itself.
      - neilk 14y ago

kayoone 14y ago

Main reasons for Berlin are its young and creative culture, affordable prices (rents, food etc) and overall great quality of live. The city itself is not the prettiest though, but it has its charme :) Ive been there a few times at pitch/startups events and always liked the locations and overall vibe.

adambyrtek 14y ago
The modern architecture in Berlin is really astounding. The city also has a lot of parks and green areas, which make it a pleasant place to live in. Not to mention perfect public transportation.

jfaucett 14y ago

I'm a young developer living in Germany. Here's my perspective. Berlin is cheap, affordable, has an international culture (I'm an emmigrant) and pretty much something to offer to everyone, so the city itself just has a good attraction for young people. I don't know why the startup scene has started booming here but just type in "web start-up" at indeed (http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&l=berlin) and you'll get 275 results. Plus the UK has cracked down on emmigration laws and Germany has opened them up, at least for engineers, etc. b/c of the "Fachkräftemangel" i.e. the fact that the Germans lack skilled laborers. So whereas before for Europeans and especially Eastern europeans the UK was #1 its now changing b/c Germany is closer and easier. Also Germany seems more open to Europeans period, the UK with Cameron is doing all it can to shun the rest of Europe. The only problem I see, is that you still need to know German to get around ( which no one studies in school), which for instance is why my brother hasn't come. EDIT: I guess I exaggerated with the "no one studies in school" bit. My point is that english is the only language we are all pounded into learning regardless of whether or not we have an interest in languages or a talent for them, so we can at least function at some level with english. German, however, is not the lingua franca I think we can all agree on that. I'm quadlingual (if that's a word), but not all talented developers like languages as well and unfortunately whatever the germans say, you still need to know german if you want to assimilate in germany, get an apartment, go shopping, and live life.

iconfinder 14y ago
"which no one studies in school" In Denmark we can select German classes in both elementary and high school.
- zxcdw 14y ago
  Sure, here in Finland too, but who bothers at that age? Most people couldn't care less about "learning stuff that could be useful in future", and even less ever actually start thinking that taking optional classes could be benefitical. And even less of them think so at high school, let alone elementary school. So, in essence, no one studies German in school.

cageface 14y ago

I enjoyed the time I spent in Berlin last year and I've considered going back there but this seems imprudent with the Euro on the verge of implosion.

hastur 14y ago
That's funny. ;) Some Euro countries (Greece) might be on the verge of implosion, but there's no way the general currency could suffer any significant damage and Germany is the very reason for that. The German economy is among the most powerful in the world and quite frankly you're more likely to experience an economic collapse in the US than in Germany. (Albeit that's pretty unlikely too, obviously. At least for now.)
- mekwall 14y ago
  Actually, an economic collapse in the US is one of the most likely things to occur during this century. If you can't see that coming you must be very naive.
- danmaz74 14y ago
  The real risk is that a contagion effect could bring about the split up of the Eurozone, and in that case a new Deutsche Mark would make German export much less competitive (and Berlin much less cheap). It's not likely, but it's still a big risk.
  - hastur 14y ago
    There's no chance of the Euro zone falling apart. The worst thing that could happen is Greece exiting the Euro zone.
    - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
      Which would rapidly approach equivalence to a New Deutschemark. Germany has itself in the Euro trap just as strongly as the PIIGS. If they go under, how will Germany keep its currency down and where will it export to?

urgeio 14y ago

Top 5 reasons why you should move to Berlin, now: 1. Lowest livings costs with highest quality of living. Stay in gorgeous, perfectly renovated apartments in pre-WWII residential buildings with high ceilings, right in the middle of the center and pay a fraction of costs of any other capital (even cheaper than any Eastern European capital). No need for a car—Berlin has one of the densest subway nets and wide streets make biking fun. In addition, Germany has an amazing social health care system including health, unemployment and pension (when working as an employee). 2. A vibrant and fast growing ecosystem of smart people. A vast number of new software talents, founders, software companies and VCs are moving to Berlin, every day (Twitter, Google, Soundcloud, Early Bird and many more). 3. People here are open-minded, outgoing, mix well and international—no need to learn German, everyone speaks English! Making new friends is a matter of days. Visit tons of networking and startup events, every week. 4. Easy work permissions—Europeans do not need any and can work from day one and the rest applies for the hassle-free Blue Card. 5. Berlin's night life is unmatched, huge and changing every day (plus ridiculously cheap). Berlin has got some of the most dazzling, naughty, and original clubs on the face of the Earth. Now, the shameless plug: Berlin is calling and getting the new tech hub of Europe. If you are passionate about building great software, we’d love to talk with you. If you don't live in Berlin yet, we could help to fix that. => http://urge.io/jobs http://urge.io/jobs

its_so_on 14y ago
genuine question: if it's so great and the capital of a rich country, why is it so cheap? (e.g. what you mentioned about apartments in the city center.)
- pillefame 14y ago
  Because it has no huge financial sector unlike New York or London. Germany's Stock-Market is located in Frankfurt. Also after reunification, East-Berlin was vastly unpopulated, people moving into the already modern West-Germany, while the former GDR was being restored. Nowadays there is hardly any differnece between East- and West-Berlin, but there is uninhabitated room. It is getting fewer though.
- 14y ago

graup 14y ago

I'm from Berlin, so I naturally enjoy the kind of hype that's being created since one or two years ago. However, I'd like to stress what someone in the video said: It's just budding and really not yet comparable to New York or London. There are quite a couple of cool start-ups here now, but still few with innovative breakthrough technology and also few large investors. But I see it coming, too. I guess this will also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. For ten years people have been telling how cool Berlin is and a lot creative people were attracted. Now everyone's telling about the new tech start-up scene and that will attract even more talented people - hopefully also large investors. Interesting times ahead!

bojanbabic 14y ago
I agree on that. I've moved to Berlin together with hype and there is only handfull of really successful startups. Berlin needs more internet millionaires and more transparency. By now, afaiks most of Berlin tech millionaires come from Rocket Internet and people that spawn out of RI have different mindset from what you can see in Valley. But, I'm pretty sure that new generation of Berlin entrepreneurs are on good path to change tech scene from ground up.

alexro 14y ago

In the UK there is no consent among the investors where the action should go. I was quite surprised to learn than basically every credible accelerator has it's own view of where my start-up should be based. Oxygen - Birmingham Ignite100 - New Castle Seedcamp - London I get their desire to improve local culture but hey this is just ridiculous to ask me to settle somewhere because you gave me some money. Also, start-ups thrive in a tech-savvy areas only. This all adds to the problem and Berlin has all the odds to become the answer.

hastur 14y ago
Yeah, but the UK, for all intents and purposes, is a 51st US state, in terms of legal and privacy concerns. If you want to protect your startup's users, you should base your company in a country that won't extradite people on charges that aren't even applicable in said country. (O'Dwyer casus) And where police won't sell you location and other assorted private data to the highest bidder. (NotW casus)
yannski 14y ago
You should take a look at HackFWD http://hackfwd.com/ http://hackfwd.com/ For them it doesn't matter where you are in Europe. However, their recruiting mechanism is referrer based.
- alexro 14y ago
  "HackFwd takes 27% equity in exchange ..." And it's pre-seed money. Thanks but no thanks.
sim0n 14y ago
Almost all accelerators do this. YC strongly encourages you to live in the Valley.
- alexro 14y ago
  There is a difference when YC wants you to live in SV for YOUR success and other accelerators wanting you to live somewhere for THEIR benefit, right?

wondering 14y ago

On the 'fake it,till you make it' path,Berlin seems to be right in the 'fake it' part.You guys write about low costs of living,however there are cheaper places in Eastern Europe with better tech talent availability overall.You mention the nightlife and a couple of the clubs are indeed world class,but I'd doubt it that you go there more than 5 times a year.The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality,in Bulgaria and Romania you get some of the fastest internet in the world for a fraction of the price you'd pay in Germany.The women are better than in the UK,but far from the best looking in the world. What I'm trying to say with this point is,I don't really see the advantage of being in Berlin in the early stages of your business too,when you're just a 3 people shop,busting your asses all day to move things forward Having written all that,I loved Berlin during my few months stay.

jfaucett 14y ago
You're missing some big points with Berlin. Where to begin... germany has a great social health care system, the economy is booming, it has a world class educational system, relatively crime and corruption free AND compared to what you get it is cheap (maybe not as cheap as Romania, but the benefits outway the costs). If you want to get talented developers germany has something to offer them and their families.
- wondering 14y ago
  Again,the points were about setting up a very early stage company in Berlin YOURSELF.It wasn't about finding employment.I've been robbed only in Western Europe,Berlin included and not even once have been victim of a crime in Eastern Europe for 18 years.So there you go :)
  - jfaucett 14y ago
    okay, but once you get beyond a 2 or 3 man team and want to attract experienced devs and expand or get investing Berlin has a lot. Its centrally located in Europe, you can jump to Warsaw, Paris, London, all quickly, plus the points I made above. I've never been to Romania so I don't know how international and networked the scene is there for comparison. You mention it being cheaper but its not all about being cheap though, the plus is in berlin its relatively inexpensive for the quality and connections you get. Sorry, to hear you got robbed! I've only lived in countries with high corruption levels (in the gov't), so germany is kind of a breath of fresh air even though its not perfect - I doubt anywhere is.

kori23 14y ago

It all sounds interesting and I've been meaning to drop my corporate job for some time now. So is there a Berlin startup news site (preferably in English) so I could get a feel what kind of startups are there? EDIT: http://siliconallee.com/ http://siliconallee.com/ seems to be the thing I was looing for, anything else?

sashthebash 14y ago
Another one: http://venturevillage.eu/ http://venturevillage.eu/
NicoleSimon 14y ago
You need to drop your corporate thinking first. I suggest you get into some projects to figure out if you are able to work in and with a startup. Note that I am saying that with a background of 15 years in corporate. ;) Most of the startups are actually very busy doing stuff (as in they don't are yet at the point understanding what proper Communcation means sigh), but http://hascore.com/ http://hascore.com/ has a good list of links. I will be posting an overview posting asap with additional links.

yctechmgr 14y ago

Don't mean to threadjack, but I'd love to team up in Berlin with a biz cofounder. If you're looking for an early employee or technical cofounder, please email me: yctechmgr at gmail.com - tell me something about your startup.

NicoleSimon 14y ago
We forward the "looking for co founder" from the Berlin startup group to the Jobs group: 'Berlin Startup Jobs' https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/

KilianSchramm 14y ago

Berlin is ramping up quickly. We get applications from all around the world. This is great and was much different just 12 Month ago. The hockey stick kicks in, now! One comment on English: It is much easier than most non-english speaking cities and most international talent can manage the daily tasks within weeks. check out foundfair.de and contact us in case you need help getting settled.

alexro 14y ago
"Upload pitch" isn't working for me in Chrome. I think you can benefit by simply providing a link on top of page for the start-ups to apply.

jdsemrau 14y ago

Berlin is amazing; lived there for a year. Plus records produces in Berlin include: U2 (Achtung Baby), David Bowie (Low,Heroes, and Lodger) , and Depeche Mode (Construction Time Again).

twfarland 14y ago

I'm an NZ expat who has lived in Berlin for the last few years. While Berlin is cool, let me present a caveat... I've enjoyed the music scene and cheap rent, but have experienced major culture shock. It is a very intense place, full of contradiction, i.e. extremely open-minded in some areas and absurdly conservate in others. Berlin alternatively challenges and reaffirms one's various values. Sometimes it seems like the 'adults' have left the city and left the 'kids' in charge. At other times, it feels impossible to breathe without violating some ponderous rule. Many are sucked into what is called a 'Berlinquency' - an existence in which one is spoilt by the hedonism, looseness, and condusiveness to self-obsession this place affords. The tech scene is ok. There are a lot of clones. Some great meetups, though. It all seems to be on the up. Watch this space. And visit for a month before deciding to move here.

k-mcgrady 14y ago
Any examples of what is 'absurdly conservative'?
- TillE 14y ago
  As a New Yorker who's lived in Berlin for four years, I can't think of much. I've noticed on certain English-speaking forums that there's a tendency to exaggerate and obsess over incredibly minor cultural differences. Like jaywalking, which isn't even an issue in Berlin (people do it and nobody cares).
DanI-S 14y ago
To be fair, that would also be a near-perfect expat description of California.

kellysutton 14y ago

I've been back and forth from Berlin for a little while now. My company's home base is in NYC, but I sometimes work out of Berlin. Even this year while I was there (Feb. - May), the startup scene is exploding. I liken it to the satisfaction of knowing of a great band before everyone else: there's no doubt that Berlin will be muttered in the same breath as the Valley, NYC and London. It's only a matter of time. The German culture can be a bit harsh to outsiders, but the Berlin startup scene more than makes up for that. The folks there are very kind and always willing to entertain a good conversation.

MrKurtHaeusler 14y ago

I am a foreigner who has been working as a developer or manager in the software sector in Germany for around 10 years. For a couple of years I have been trying to move towards self-employment, with some ups and downs, but I am making progress on a project together with my wife. Last year I had the chance to switch jobs and move elsewhere so I naturally targeted Berlin. I would like to keep working in a high-paying job while funding the startup that I work on in my free time. I noticed a few things: There are a quite a few startup jobs, but they are low end, low paying. Many pay even less than what I started on 10 years ago. They are looking for those starting their first job I think. I get the feeling Berlin startups get a lot less funding that other startups. Even the non-startup jobs that require more experience seem to pay a lot less, and even with the slightly cheaper rent than other cities, I couldn't find any attractive options. The official work experience I have on my CV is more enterprisy stuff like .NET and lots of stuff startups care less about like Scrum, Kanban, management in general and agile software development. I do have experience with things like Ruby, Python and JavaScript, but even startup employers were only interested in what was on my CV. Not complaining or anything, just trying to help get a feel on what I found while looking there last year. I found a good job near Frankfurt, and who knows, maybe I will end up in Berlin later, but I feel I might not need to. Frankfurt has a startup scene (and a rich financial sector). So does Cologne where I used to live.

nirvana 14y ago
I think you're bringing up good points, which I would summarize this way: The berlin startup scene is great for recent graduates as an employee, but if you're more experienced, then you want to be a founder.
NicoleSimon 14y ago
"The official work experience I have on my CV is more enterprisy stuff" That already is your point. You are coming from an enterprise thinking and payment structure - Berlin is everything but Enterprise. With your kind of payment expectations, they will simply expect you to step up the game, and that probably is at least CTO if not co founder. If you want to be your specialized dev, you need to be extra good to work around this area and _understand_ what startups are about. Also, judging by your nickname here, your name still sounds German. If you are from A / CH by definition (and if not proven otherwise on your CV and through experiences) you are not automatically startup material. Don't get me wrong: it is just about different skillset and mentality and if you cannot provide proof that you are not tainted by that obstacle, you will have an even harder time getting a job in that environment.

DividesByZero 14y ago

I'm an engineer who visited Berlin earlier this year and loved the city - it's like my home town of Melbourne, Australia which I love, but just MORE of it. I already had the itch to leave my 9-5 and go somewhere for an adventure, so when I got home I set about working out what I'd need to do to head over there and how much capital I'd need for about 6-months self sustained living in Berlin (came out to about $15,000AUD, thanks to the current strong AUD). I found out one of my close (engineer) friends was also looking to leave his job and do something interesting and exciting, so I've convinced him to come with me too. Succeed or fail, it really seems like we could be part of something exciting in Berlin! Any advice on dos and don't would be appreciated.

kmfrk 14y ago

Does anyone know how the start-up scene in Berlin compares to that in Paris? They seem to be two of the biggest contenders for the SV of Europe. I think Spain tried something similar with Barcelona that ended up fizzing out.

oceanician 14y ago

I would love to buy one of the 10,000 sq metre mills 5 mins taxi from Manchester's central Picadilly train station and turn it into startup accomodation. We're only 2 hours from London's Euston!! (So less than 3 hours from Shorditch) Berlin however does seem to have the greatest multicultural vibe going for it for startups. It's pretty impressive, and I hope to sample it later in the year :)

_ex_ 14y ago

How is life for non white people? I'm from latin-america.

lacosaes0 14y ago
It's really hard at least in Berlin.
- _ex_ 14y ago
  why it's hard?
nirvana 14y ago
Berlin has the largest turkish population outside of instanbul. They have turkish restaurants everywhere and also grocery stores. The population is ethnically very diverse, though of course, more middle eastern people than latin american ones. Germans tend to be proper. So, drinking beer on the subway might be frowned upon, but nobody will comment. If you're obnoxious or noisy or otherwise being a jerk, germans will not be friendly to you. If you're polite, they don't care what you look like. If you've got a chip on your shoulder, you may mistake their coldness, which is really professionalism, for judgement, which it isn't.
- _ex_ 14y ago
  thanks! I think I'm a bit less louder that my con-nationals

24pfilms 14y ago

Wow, timing is everything. I had booked my ticket 2 days ago for Berlin. I am finishing up my time at StartupChile and heading to Berlin after being convinced by many at SUP, that Berlin has many things happening. I needed a high quality affordable city, that was startup friendly and supported my photography addiction. Berlin hopefully will allow me the time to focus and finish my two iOS games.

IanOzsvald 14y ago
I'm also finishing StartupChile and 24pfilms is flat-sharing with us in Buenos Aires right now. We're returning to London for a while but Berlin is still on our list (nowhere else in Europe is on our list).

webjunkie 14y ago

Home for start-up business? Yes. For tech start-ups? I don't think so. I have yet to meet one engineer-driven tech start-up from Berlin. Most founders I met and know are some business guys with oh-so-clever ideas looking for just the right CTO guy to make their plan reality. And most German developers I know also never thought about working for a start-up. They happily flock to every large German company you may know. The previous start-up I worked for had more Spanish developers than German ones.

JVIDEL 14y ago
Same here in Argentina, the startup community is almost engineer-free (almost, there are exceptions) but yeah it's kinda difficult to find engineers because most here don't want to work at a startup that might last less than a year, so they go to big and established companies instead.
notJim 14y ago
Have you met or spoken to the Soundcloud guys? I met a bunch of their engineers here in NYC a few months ago, and they were very cool to hang out with. Seemed like a pretty cool company to me. Edit: they could be an outlier, of course.
wickedchicken 14y ago
Ableton? Native Instruments?
- hfaber 14y ago
  They're not startups.
  - nagnatron 14y ago
    How about Bitwig?
pimeys 14y ago
In our company, SponsorPay, we have a strong developer culture. The whole IT team is rock solid.

purzelrakete 14y ago

feel free to drop me a mail if you want to know anything about working at soundcloud. i'm an engineer. rany@soundcloud.com

paulnelligan 14y ago

Berlin is a FANTASTIC city to bootstrap your project ... reasons: 1. cheap cost of living, 2. availability of relatively well paid contract work, 3. A very supportive startup / creative community who are willing to share info and resources, 4. A very smart and creative demographic, 5. wonderful bars, clubs, and restaurants, 6. German people are actually a decent bunch :) disadvantages: 1. over-strict regulations in dealing with Banking and Regulatory bodies (whatever you do, do NOT sign up for a postbank a/c), 2. Less than ideal weather. Overall a win I think, which is why I continue to call Berlin my home.

wickedchicken 14y ago
> wonderful bars, clubs They don't close. They. Do. Not. Close. As a nocturnal developer I could go out to a club, get back to my hostel at 2, write code for 2 hours and then go out again. Bliss.

spitfire 14y ago

So if someone wanted to relocate to Berlin to start a company, or to expand a team into europe, how would they go about that? Where do people want to live? Where to locate offices? Where do you find good talent? What are the legal steps to do so? Any pitfalls to avoid? Others should feel free to jump on this.

sbouafif 14y ago

Any city has its pros and cons. I am currently an intern in a tech start-up in Paris, the city has many co-working spaces / incubators. The start-up scene is bigger every day, and yes you won't speak french 70% of the day. Anyway just saying the document seems to be a nice post card from Berlin but the same things are happening everywhere. Last year it was Paris (Wired.com): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs

JVIDEL 14y ago

This seems interesting, but I have one question: what about taxes? Any tax breaks for tech startups? what about employee/healthcare costs?

pmoehring 14y ago
Almost no tax breaks for startups, and healthcare and employee taxes are regulated very closely to normal German laws. Shockingly, recently the govt seems to have decided that angel investors and even founders will not be eligible for certain tax breaks, and instead will be taxed on income tax level for capital gains.
- JVIDEL 14y ago
  And what level of taxation are we talking about?

NicoleSimon 14y ago

One of the things we still need to work on in Berlinis connecting people better. ;) So some notes and links. * Introductory notes * Entry points / sites * Finding out about events * Getting a job * Got links? Please provide _________________ INTRODUCTORY NOTES _________________ Per se there are two different circles of startup folk in Germany. The german / Germany oriented ones, what I usually call "the victims of the language island" (everything in Germany is dubbed - movies, tv, books). The second, more interesting level is the international mindset, the people who are mentally oriented toward silicon valley. Both group usually do not mingle and the following applies for that second group and explain part of the reason why Berlin is special. This group has accepted english as their lingua franca and people come from all over the world, enjoying not only the benefits listed in the other comments, but the feeling of "being able to make it here". The absence of any enterprise like structure due to the past with the wall enables in many ways what Berlin is today. There is of course an echo chamber effect for this group and once you connect, you run into the usual startups very quickly. ;) _________________ ENTRY POINTS _________________ Your Nr 1. starting point for meeting people ;) English speaking Berlin startup group on Facebook with ~2400 members. https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/ Follow that if you are interested in meeting people and or asking questions. Hint: Do not try to post stuff which is does not have the "Berlin and startup" relevant connection and do not try to sneak in a "but in theory this is about startups ...", I will delete the post and ban you permanently. Looking for a job / employee / co founder does belong into the sister group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/) __ General sites to read: http://venturevillage.eu/ http://venturevillage.eu/ http://siliconallee.com/ http://siliconallee.com/ http://www.techberlin.com/ http://www.techberlin.com/ __ We also have a strong women in tech movement in Berlin: http://berlingeekettes.com/ http://berlingeekettes.com/ is both interview site and meetup; I run http://girlgeekdinner.de/ http://girlgeekdinner.de/ which will happen more frequently once I am relocated. ;) __ Find a Co-Working spaces: https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&L=1 http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&L=1 is the official place from Berlin to help people coming to Berlin, they are very helpful too with business needs with a special attention to startups. _________________ EVENTS _________________ Event listings as in "is there something happening ..." http://berlinwebweek.de/ http://berlinwebweek.de/ Get the weekly Newsletter with new events: http://startupdigest.com/berlin/ http://startupdigest.com/berlin/ Berlin tech user groups links: http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html Monthly radio show about Berlin Startups http://fridayat6.de/ http://fridayat6.de/ Not very active but still: Berlin StartUp Employees https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/ Meetup.com has tons of groups and meetups beyond startup land http://www.meetup.com http://www.meetup.com and then go Berlin _________________ GETTING A JOB _________________ If you are looking for a job in Berlin, are a Berlin based startup looking for employees or for a co founder, this facebook group can be helful for you https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/ __ Job boards with a special focus on Berlin startups: http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ http://berlinstartupjobs.com/ http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/ http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/ http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin (this is a list of some startups made in berlin + links to job pages if available.) http://meetfounder.com/ http://meetfounder.com/ (if you are looking for a co-founder) __ Finding companies to work for http://hascore.com/ http://hascore.com/ limits itself to "Hascore is a job board focused on Product Development for the Berlin Startup Scene that provides relevant context for making better decisions" BUT because the way they list their jobs you can surf through it and find the links to lots of companies. __ Listings mostly in German http://jobslike.me/ http://jobslike.me/ http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/ http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/ https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebote-580691/ https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebo... _________________ Any additions? _________________ Happy to take that into the list Also I am always looking for people to add to my "English tweeting people from Berlin with startup affinity" https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals hth Nicole

radiospaetkauf 14y ago

Here's a shameless plug: Listen to the Radio Spaetkauf podcast if you want insights into life in Berlin from an international perspective. http://www.radiospaetkauf.com http://www.radiospaetkauf.com