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You can DIY an usable solar setup, complete with battery, for a couple thousand euros, panels and inverters are already quite cheap and the battery prices is co

You can DIY an usable solar setup, complete with battery, for a couple thousand euros, panels and inverters are already quite cheap and the battery prices is coming down. If you have the space to put it, you can be self-sufficient for most of the year. Equipment is VAT-free in Germany and Austria, too. The big problem with solar, is that winter days are cold and dark, so when you need heating the most, it's the least available.

nottorp 2y ago
> If you have the space to put it High income people living in detached houses again...
- Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  I think it depends on the country. In some places electricity is cheaper than gas (already) and it starts to go the direction of a no-brainer. But see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory On the other hand, with less demand from part of the population, gas prices should ultimately start to come down a bit; if we look at straight spot prices and pure economic theory. However, for some reason utilities don't always care about theory. And we probably want to stop using gas and oil in Europe anyway; would be smarter. (We're pretty much literally paying for wars waged against us; now and in future) So, I'm thinking maybe some sort of subsidized replacement program; perhaps interest-free loans with government backing or some such; which can be paid back with (part of) the efficiency gains?
- torginus 2y ago
  Lots of people who are not exactly high income live in the countryside, too.. Additionally, living in shared housing does not disqualify you from having solar panels installed either - if you live in an apartment complex that's a modestly sized 2x2x2 - meaning it has 4x the surface area, and 4x the roof area, the math generally works out the same - for longer houses, it's better, for taller ones its worse, but I think there are a ton of sweet spots, but tall and skinny apartment buildings will lose out.

nottorp 2y ago

> If you have the space to put it High income people living in detached houses again...

Kim_Bruning 2y ago
I think it depends on the country. In some places electricity is cheaper than gas (already) and it starts to go the direction of a no-brainer. But see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory On the other hand, with less demand from part of the population, gas prices should ultimately start to come down a bit; if we look at straight spot prices and pure economic theory. However, for some reason utilities don't always care about theory. And we probably want to stop using gas and oil in Europe anyway; would be smarter. (We're pretty much literally paying for wars waged against us; now and in future) So, I'm thinking maybe some sort of subsidized replacement program; perhaps interest-free loans with government backing or some such; which can be paid back with (part of) the efficiency gains?
torginus 2y ago
Lots of people who are not exactly high income live in the countryside, too.. Additionally, living in shared housing does not disqualify you from having solar panels installed either - if you live in an apartment complex that's a modestly sized 2x2x2 - meaning it has 4x the surface area, and 4x the roof area, the math generally works out the same - for longer houses, it's better, for taller ones its worse, but I think there are a ton of sweet spots, but tall and skinny apartment buildings will lose out.